Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Negotiate for it?? could this be the answer you seek.

Would you negotiate any kind of solution that would allow all refugees to return to their homes? So far such thing was out of the question for your side. So how can all refugees return through negotiations?

i believe that the cost of waging a war will ba much greater than some people loosing their land. so war is out of the question no matter what. even if there was a chance of winning WAR IS NOT AN OPTION.

It is not about "some people loosing their land". It is about loosing half of our country. Do you think that there is any country that would have a big part of its land illegally occupied by a foreign invader and say "war is not an option for us even if we could win"?? If it was like this the Greek revolution should have never happened and the whole Europe should have remained under the Nazis.

War is not an option now. However if/when the balance of power will change of course it will be an option. Not only we have the right, but we have the obligation to defend the land that our ancestors have been living for 3500 years.

I truly hope that Turkey and the TCs will realize that the only way for peace is the respect of human rights of everybody in one democratic country. If they insist in things like "we won the war, we expect our reward on your expense" then they should know that they will receive an answer of the same kind sooner or later.

[zan]

History
The strategic position of Cyprus has long made it a coveted territory, and from the 15th century BC it was colonized by a succession of peoples from the mainland. In the 8th century it was within the Assyrian empire, then the Babylonian, Egyptian, and Persian. As part of Ptolemaic Egypt, it was seized by Rome in 58 BC. From AD 395 it was ruled by Byzantium, until taken in 1191 by England during the Third Crusade. In 1489 it was annexed by Venice, and became part of the Ottoman empire in 1571. It came under British administration in 1878 and was annexed by Britain in 1914, becoming a crown colony in 1925.


Oscar Wilde: To lose one parent may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both
looks like carelessness.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

Would you negotiate any kind of solution that would allow all refugees to return to their homes? So far such thing was out of the question for your side. So how can all refugees return through negotiations?

Can all refugees return totheir homes? are you really being realistic or just holding onto a dream that will not come true.
Tcs do not have any problems with giving back land, safety and politcal equality is more importnant. So Im sure if GCs went back to the negotiaiting table Im pretty certain Tcs would sincerely try to ensure aa many refugees were allowed back their properties as physically possible. This taboo you have of us being greedy and not wanting to compromise is wrong. Doesnt the TCs in Guzelyurt/Omorfo tell you something they voted heavily in favour of A plan knowing they would be losing their homes and livelihoods.

It is not about "some people loosing their land". It is about loosing half of our country. Do you think that there is any country that would have a big part of its land illegally occupied by a foreign invader

Dont forget the whole of Cyprus was our as well but we choose to give 63% of it up and live in area were we felt safe and away from GC dominance. This was not just a product of TCs you guys had a lot to do with it as well.

War is not an option now. However if/when the balance of power will change of course it will be an option. Not only we have the right, but we have the obligation to defend the land that our ancestors have been living for 3500 years.

We will not question your dreams and aspirations and wait for that swing.

I truly hope that Turkey and the TCs will realize that the only way for peace is the respect of human rights of everybody in one democratic country. If they insist in things like "we won the war, we expect our reward on your expense" then they should know that they will receive an answer of the same kind sooner or later.

We have shown what we want by our YES vote now we try to understand your concerns but if what you are asking is the stars, moon and the sun then we will arrive nowhere very quickly. The only way we can reach the goals you keep on about is to negotiate them and that is exactly what we are not doing so the result is stalemate.

[zan]

We have shown what we want by our YES vote now we try to understand your concerns but if what you are asking is the stars, moon and the sun then we will arrive nowhere very quickly. The only way we can reach the goals you keep on about is to negotiate them and that is exactly what we are not doing so the result is stalemate.

VP are you being realistic? Piratis has made it quite clear what he wants time and time again.

Get rid of the Turkish army
Get rid of the refugees
Give all the land back
Live under the majority rule of Greek Cypriot RoC
Allow the GCs to unite with Greece if they want to because they are the majority
If you don’t like it leave.

Any thing I missed out Piratis?

[cypezokyli]

t is not about "some people loosing their land". It is about loosing half of our country. Do you think that there is any country that would have a big part of its land illegally occupied by a foreign invader and say "war is not an option for us even if we could win"?? If it was like this the Greek revolution should have never happened and the whole Europe should have remained under the Nazis.

some people will loose their land in any solution. thats what i was referring to. i am saying that it is not worth to wage a war in order to have all refuggees return, if we can get as many as possible peacefully.

War is not an option now. However if/when the balance of power will change of course it will be an option. Not only we have the right, but we have the obligation to defend the land that our ancestors have been living for 3500 years.

war is not an option. even if the balance of power changes. on the other side of the line is not just turkish soldiers, there are also turkish cypriots. they are our compatriots and the ones who which we hope and wish that one day we ll live in this island in peace. thats why the word war should be completely wiped out of our vocabulary. if we signed a treaty any treaty, we should keep our signiture and not change it with any change of balance of powers. war will just create more pain, and it is not justified right now in cyprus. we can- if we want- negotiate.

even more, we have no obligation to our ancestors but to the new generations that we ll give them a peacefull land to live on.

let me remind you that we live in 2005 and we are members of the EU for christ sake

I truly hope that Turkey and the TCs will realize that the only way for peace is the respect of human rights of everybody in one democratic country. If they insist in things like "we won the war, we expect our reward on your expense" then they should know that they will receive an answer of the same kind sooner or later.

its not matter of reward on our expense. it was a reaction to our actions which were reactions to their actions...which go back who knows how long.
but i thought that u also accepted that the kyrenia refuggees will probably not return.

if we sign a solution, we will not do it in order to get even at some point in time when we are stronger. we ll sign it and will do our best to make it work, even if some people will have to pay the price for the benefit of the whole society. [/quote]

[Piratis]

Can all refugees return totheir homes?

Of course they can. In 1974 you kicked them out of their homes within days. If they could move out in days they can certainly move back in several stages over several months. The only problem is that you don't want them all to return because you want to keep what you stole.

or just holding onto a dream that will not come true.

I am sure you said this many times when the Ottoman empire was half the world. Things change my friend.

Doesnt the TCs in Guzelyurt/Omorfo tell you something they voted heavily in favour of A plan knowing they would be losing their homes and livelihoods.

Their homes? You mean the homes they illegally occupied for 30 years?
Nobody has to lose his own home. Everybody should be allowed to have their own properties.

Dont forget the whole of Cyprus was our as well but we choose to give 63% of it up and live in area were we felt safe and away from GC dominance. This was not just a product of TCs you guys had a lot to do with it as well.

You are the 18% and you took 37%. If ethnic cleansing is needed for you to feel safe from GC dominance then the alternative solution is to move you in Turkey. I hope you will not have problem with this.

We have shown what we want by our YES vote now we try to understand your concerns but if what you are asking is the stars, moon and the sun then we will arrive nowhere very quickly.

Yes, what you have shown is that you want a disguised partition that will violate our human rights. We do not want the stars and the sun. We want our human rights and what belongs to us. You are the ones who want to gain on our loss.

Any thing I missed out Piratis?

You are missing everything.
What I want is nothing more than legality and this:
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

some people will loose their land in any solution. thats what i was referring to. i am saying that it is not worth to wage a war in order to have all refugees return, if we can get as many as possible peacefully.

This depends on how much it is possible peacefully. The 95%, 90%, 80%? Would the solution create the conditions that most refugees will even want to return?

if we signed a treaty any treaty, we should keep our signiture and not change it with any change of balance of powers.

We already signed a treaty in 1960. Are we supposed to sign a new treaty worst than the one before every time they have the power to force it on us, and when we will have the power you expect us to do nothing about it???

There is only one solution: FULL respect to everybody's human rights, in one united democratic Cyprus. Anything else will not be a permanent solution.

[zan]

You are missing everything.
What I want is nothing more than legality and this:
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Was this available in Greek in 1963........

[Eric dayi]

You are missing everything.
What I want is nothing more than legality and this:
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Was this available in Greek in 1963........

Maybe it was put in an office draw and "forgotten "about until such day when the side who lost land while trying to steal the other sides land suddenly remembered that "human rights" does exist afterall. Just like the one that was magically found last year, the one that says in 1974 a "LAW" was passed by the Greek "Goevernment" that a "Cypriot" can't sell land to another "Cypriot". You know, that sort of "human rights".

Oh, nearly forgot....the Greek Cypriot "Government" is about to pass another "human rights LAW", one that threatens to jail any GC, up to 4 years (ouch), if they dare to claim their lands back through an internationally recognised TC court.

Don't you just love "Human rights" of this sort?

Hmmmm....I wonder what the EU will have to say about this new "LAW"?

[Viewpoint]

You are missing everything.
What I want is nothing more than legality and this:
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Was this available in Greek in 1963........

Maybe it was put in an office draw and "forgotten "about until such day when the side who lost land while trying to steal the other sides land suddenly remembered that "human rights" does exist afterall. Just like the one that was magically found last year, the one that says in 1974 a "LAW" was passed by the Greek "Goevernment" that a "Cypriot" can't sell land to another "Cypriot". You know, that sort of "human rights".

Oh, nearly forgot....the Greek Cypriot "Government" is about to pass another "human rights LAW", one that threatens to jail any GC, up to 4 years (ouch), if they dare to claim their lands back through an internationally recognised TC court.

Don't you just love "Human rights" of this sort?

Hmmmm....I wonder what the EU will have to say about this new "LAW"?

Very well said Dayi, where the human rights of TCs pre 1974? It was ok then now people like Piratis can only preach what they denied us back then.

Piratis

Of course they can. In 1974 you kicked them out of their homes within days. If they could move out in days they can certainly move back in several stages over several months. The only problem is that you don't want them all to return because you want to keep what you stole.

What if his house has been knocked down? can he return to his old property as it was?

What if these has been a 5million pound holiday complex been build on his land?

What if his property has been sold 5 times down the line??

What if the property is given to a bank as collateral?

Do you still feel every refugees can return if you do you are dillusioned and need medical help.

I am sure you said this many times when the Ottoman empire was half the world. Things change my friend.

I will not deny you your dreams.

Their homes? You mean the homes they illegally occupied for 30 years?
Nobody has to lose his own home. Everybody should be allowed to have their own properties.

I agree with this in principle but not all will be able to get back their disputed homes and many compromises will have to bemade.

You are the 18% and you took 37%. If ethnic cleansing is needed for you to feel safe from GC dominance then the alternative solution is to move you in Turkey. I hope you will not have problem with this.

Whatever our % Piratis you still have to negotiate with us as to how best unite or stay divided. So we should fear GC dominance? is that what you are saying?
Tcs will never go anywhere they love their homeland to much to do that and those that live abroad have a great longing to return.

Yes, what you have shown is that you want a disguised partition that will violate our human rights. We do not want the stars and the sun. We want our human rights and what belongs to us. You are the ones who want to gain on our loss.

Whatever human rights you desire can only be obtained through negotations or war (if you win) your choice.

There is only one solution: FULL respect to everybody's human rights, in one united democratic Cyprus. Anything else will not be a permanent solution.

You so freely throw around this human rights issue but in my opinion its only a means to get back what your long for which is not a peaceful living with us or prosperity or even safety, its all down to property nothing else land land land you are no better than Kifeas who whole arguement is getting land back and reducing us into a minority whos human rights you in trun will abuse.

You come accross as a GC with an axe to grind and a thrist for vegence for lossing the war. Do you thinnk your are really thinking methodically or just after getting back at us for taking 37% of what we already own.

[Piratis]

Very well said Dayi, where the human rights of TCs pre 1974?

Pre 1974? You mean the centuries that you used Greek Cypriots as slaves by grossly violating our human rights again?

What if his house has been knocked down? can he return to his old property as it was?

He should be compensated and be given land in the same city/village to rebuild his home.

What if these has been a 5million pound holiday complex been build on his land?

He should be compensated fairly (that land must be very expensive) and be given land nearby.

What if his property has been sold 5 times down the line??

The ones that were fooled to buy stolen property can be compensated by Turkey. Otherwise they lost their money. (and they have been warned that this will happen so they can not complain)

What if the property is given to a bank as collateral?

Nobody has the right to give this land apart from its legal owner. Since the legal owner never gave the land it means that it was never given to anybody.

Do you still feel every refugees can return if you do you are dillusioned and need medical help.

What we need is to put an end to your crimes that apparently you insist on committing.

Whatever our % Piratis you still have to negotiate with us as to how best unite or stay divided. So we should fear GC dominance? is that what you are saying?

What I am saying is that we propose equality of all people and human rights for everybody but you insist on rejecting it. You are the one making this choice, not me. Just remember this.

You so freely throw around this human rights issue but in my opinion its only a means to get back what your long for which is not a peaceful living with us or prosperity or even safety, its all down to property nothing else land land land you are no better than Kifeas who whole arguement is getting land back and reducing us into a minority whos human rights you in trun will abuse.

Do you know any human being that doesn't want to live in peace, prosperity and safety??? What are you talking about?
The fact is that you are the ones abusing our human rights. Beyond that you can make up as many imaginary excuses as you want.

You come accross as a GC with an axe to grind and a thrist for vegence for lossing the war. Do you thinnk your are really thinking methodically or just after getting back at us for taking 37% of what we already own.

I am after getting back what was stolen from us, which includes land and our human and legal rights. Anything wrong with that??? What is wrong is your insistence on criminal actions that violate the human rights of 100s of thousands of people.