Cyprus-Forum.com

[Maximus]

You're entitled to your opinion of course but what you believein as a universal law does not make it so.

Hope is a perfectly normal human emotion. You do not need religion to be filled with any hope. Atheists hope for betterment and look to the future living their lives as best they can and the vast majority treat their neighbour like they would like to be treated.

Yes, hope is a normal human emotion as I understand it. it is present in all of man.

This is how I see it. Hope = Faith = Religion

If your faith excludes God then your religion is something else. Something else has to answer your hope, your desire, your wish. Something has to deliver from the faith you hold. What or who is that?

You're on a the edge of a 500 ft cliff, you slip and fall but catch yourself on a broken tree branch, whose roots are breaking. Do you stop and hope and pray or use the last two seconds to pull yourself up to the edge. People that were jumping off the World Trade Center knew their destiny if they stayed in the building ..should they have jumped and given themselves a one in a billion chance or stayed where they were and gotten burned to death? The point is, why is God or religion seen as hope?

Because when you hope for something you also need to have faith that your desire/wish will be delivered and faith is synonymous with religion.

If your faith excludes God then your religion is something else. Something else has to answer your hope, your desire, your wish. Something has to deliver from the faith you hold. What or who is that?

The only entity that can answer your hope is your own instinct of survival (yourself). This instinct of self preservation and survival is primitive, and is prevalent in the animal kingdom. Even bacteria are said to have this instinct. The crocodile is a pre-historic reptile from the age of Dinosaurs and its instinct has resulted in its survival to this day.

Animals have hope and they don't have a God. it's quite amazing that those that do have a God are also responsible for so much damage to the Animal Kingdom, environment and our planet at large. So I really do wonder at times who really is closer to Mother Nature.

How do you know animals have hope?

There have been cases where I have hoped for something and events or circumstances lined up for me to get/achieve them. How do you explain the things that line up that are outside of ones sphere of control?

[Maximus]

It certainly wasn't God!

You guys love changing the goal posts. At first the Universe and planet was created about 7000 years ago by the creator over 7 days and then he created Adam and Eve. What happened to that theory?

What or who was it then?

Science and religion have different methods and ways of explaining things.

Science is scientific, Religion is spiritual and metaphorical.

I want to know, who or what created the big bang?

Was something created out of nothing?

[Paphitis]

How do you know animals have hope?

There have been cases where I have hoped for something and events lined up for me to get/achieve them. How do you explain the things that line up that are outside of ones sphere of control?

We know.

A lion will hunt in the hope of catching its prey in order to survive. All animals hope to survive and ensure the future of their species.

they have hope alright, and ambition (to survive).

And when they kill, most species usually only kill enough for their nourishment in order to survive so there seems to be some kind of awareness about the conservation of their prey for future requirements as opposed to humans who up to this point have been quite inconsiderate overall!

[Paphitis]

It certainly wasn't God!

You guys love changing the goal posts. At first the Universe and planet was created about 7000 years ago by the creator over 7 days and then he created Adam and Eve. What happened to that theory?

What or who was it then?

Science and religion have different methods and ways of explaining things.

Science is scientific, Religion is spiritual and metaphorical.

I want to know, who or what created the big bang?

Was something created out of nothing?

Spirituality can mean many different things.

An Atheist can be spiritual too. It does not mean making things up to explain the unexplainable.

[Maximus]

How do you know animals have hope?

There have been cases where I have hoped for something and events lined up for me to get/achieve them. How do you explain the things that line up that are outside of ones sphere of control?

We know.

A lion will hunt in the hope of catching its prey in order to survive. All animals hope to survive and ensure the future of their species.

they have hope alright, and ambition (to survive).

And when they kill, most species usually only kill enough for their nourishment in order to survive so there seems to be some kind of awareness about the conservation of their prey for future requirements as opposed to humans who up to this point have been quite inconsiderate overall!

Your making up stories. A lion will hunt because it has to eat, it is instinctual, a matter of survival.

There is no awareness other than, I am hungry, I need to eat, I am full now, I do not need to eat any more. It is because there is an absence of a refrigerator or preservation system that they stop hunting and because they are no longer hungry. Otherwise they are constantly searching for food or water or shelter or a mate.

Some animals do store food though, food that doesn't go off. Like a squirrel will horde nuts.

[Maximus]

It certainly wasn't God!

You guys love changing the goal posts. At first the Universe and planet was created about 7000 years ago by the creator over 7 days and then he created Adam and Eve. What happened to that theory?

What or who was it then?

Science and religion have different methods and ways of explaining things.

Science is scientific, Religion is spiritual and metaphorical.

I want to know, who or what created the big bang?

Was something created out of nothing?

Spirituality can mean many different things.

An Atheist can be spiritual too. It does not mean making things up to explain the unexplainable.

So what or who created the big bang? was something created out of nothing?

[Paphitis]

How do you know animals have hope?

There have been cases where I have hoped for something and events lined up for me to get/achieve them. How do you explain the things that line up that are outside of ones sphere of control?

We know.

A lion will hunt in the hope of catching its prey in order to survive. All animals hope to survive and ensure the future of their species.

they have hope alright, and ambition (to survive).

And when they kill, most species usually only kill enough for their nourishment in order to survive so there seems to be some kind of awareness about the conservation of their prey for future requirements as opposed to humans who up to this point have been quite inconsiderate overall!

Your making up stories. A lion will hunt because it has to eat, it is instinctual, a matter of survival.

There is no awareness other than, I am hungry, I need to eat, I am full now, I do not need to eat any more. It is because there is an absence of a refrigerator or preservation system that they stop hunting and because they are no longer hungry. Otherwise they are constantly searching for food or water or shelter or a mate.

Some animals do store food though, food that doesn't go off. Like a squirrel will horde nuts.

No sorry! I don't make anything up.

I only state what I experience.

How do you know what a lion's instincts are. Some animals are highly evolved and very sociable and this indicated that they are quite intelligent, some more intelligent than others. Lions for example, have a highly evolved Social Hierarchy.

If these animals did not have any hope, then their will or instinct to survive will not be there. Animals are also capable of emotion.

[Paphitis]

It certainly wasn't God!

You guys love changing the goal posts. At first the Universe and planet was created about 7000 years ago by the creator over 7 days and then he created Adam and Eve. What happened to that theory?

What or who was it then?

Science and religion have different methods and ways of explaining things.

Science is scientific, Religion is spiritual and metaphorical.

I want to know, who or what created the big bang?

Was something created out of nothing?

Spirituality can mean many different things.

An Atheist can be spiritual too. It does not mean making things up to explain the unexplainable.

So what or who created the big bang? was something created out of nothing?

You can't even answer that hence your need to fill in the gaps with mythology!

[Maximus]

How do you know animals have hope?

There have been cases where I have hoped for something and events lined up for me to get/achieve them. How do you explain the things that line up that are outside of ones sphere of control?

We know.

A lion will hunt in the hope of catching its prey in order to survive. All animals hope to survive and ensure the future of their species.

they have hope alright, and ambition (to survive).

And when they kill, most species usually only kill enough for their nourishment in order to survive so there seems to be some kind of awareness about the conservation of their prey for future requirements as opposed to humans who up to this point have been quite inconsiderate overall!

Your making up stories. A lion will hunt because it has to eat, it is instinctual, a matter of survival.

There is no awareness other than, I am hungry, I need to eat, I am full now, I do not need to eat any more. It is because there is an absence of a refrigerator or preservation system that they stop hunting and because they are no longer hungry. Otherwise they are constantly searching for food or water or shelter or a mate.

Some animals do store food though, food that doesn't go off. Like a squirrel will horde nuts.

No sorry! I don't make anything up.

I only state what I experience.

How do you know what a lion's instincts are. Some animals are highly evolved and very sociable and this indicated that they are quite intelligent, some more intelligent than others. Lions for example, have a highly evolved Social Hierarchy.

If these animals did not have any hope, then their will or instinct to survive will not be there. Animals are also capable of emotion.

Alright, OK, some animals are more evolved, more intelligent and more sophisticated than others. Some animals are capable of demonstrating emotion but its primitive.

Instincts and emotions are not the same though, but emotions can be instinctive. like if you or an animal feels pain your instincts tell you to move away from that which is causing it. An animal does not hope to find food, its instincts tell it or dictate to it that it has to finds some to survive.

Lets just say or agree that animals do not have a faith or religion.

[Maximus]

It certainly wasn't God!

You guys love changing the goal posts. At first the Universe and planet was created about 7000 years ago by the creator over 7 days and then he created Adam and Eve. What happened to that theory?

What or who was it then?

Science and religion have different methods and ways of explaining things.

Science is scientific, Religion is spiritual and metaphorical.

I want to know, who or what created the big bang?

Was something created out of nothing?

Spirituality can mean many different things.

An Atheist can be spiritual too. It does not mean making things up to explain the unexplainable.

So what or who created the big bang? was something created out of nothing?

You can't even answer that hence your need to fill in the gaps with mythology!

I cant answer that, your right and neither can you and so it seems that science cant answer it either.

You just say that it certainly wasn't god.