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RELIGIONS: THE CURSE OF HUMANITY

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Re: RELIGIONS: THE CURSE OF HUMANITY

Postby Garavnoss » Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:41 pm

miltiades wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:If People have he right to follow and promote belief systems involving the existence of supernatural beings known as gods (of which there are many) then equally people have the right to follow and promote a belief system which excludes the existence of the any go or gods, provided of course within reason all respect the rights of others to hold a different point of view.

What is quite clear is that many such belief systems are grossly intolerant of the alternatives - to the extent of killing the holders of such alternative points of view. Look at the fact that the many of the worst Atrocities are eg Moslem on Moslem shiite/Sunni killings, or the wars of the European reformation and eg the Spanish Inquisition - the list is long.

It is worse when religions and state become intertwined with eg the divine right of kings. There religion is often used to suppress perceived enemies of the state -

I entirely share your sentiments.
What impresses most about our western world is the fact that neither the state nor religion can lawfully dictate that a citizen must beleive or not. Each and every one of us has afree choice based on numerous personal reasons and logic. May I also add that I would never express my views to young people as I believe it will be upto them to make a judged decision throughout their lives.



Always assuming that there are no young children or other impressionable persons viewing this forum and if there are, from where or from whom do you suppose they would source the information required to form their own judgment ?.
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Re: RELIGIONS: THE CURSE OF HUMANITY

Postby miltiades » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:05 pm

Garavnoss wrote:
miltiades wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:If People have he right to follow and promote belief systems involving the existence of supernatural beings known as gods (of which there are many) then equally people have the right to follow and promote a belief system which excludes the existence of the any go or gods, provided of course within reason all respect the rights of others to hold a different point of view.

What is quite clear is that many such belief systems are grossly intolerant of the alternatives - to the extent of killing the holders of such alternative points of view. Look at the fact that the many of the worst Atrocities are eg Moslem on Moslem shiite/Sunni killings, or the wars of the European reformation and eg the Spanish Inquisition - the list is long.

It is worse when religions and state become intertwined with eg the divine right of kings. There religion is often used to suppress perceived enemies of the state -

I entirely share your sentiments.
What impresses most about our western world is the fact that neither the state nor religion can lawfully dictate that a citizen must beleive or not. Each and every one of us has afree choice based on numerous personal reasons and logic. May I also add that I would never express my views to young people as I believe it will be upto them to make a judged decision throughout their lives.



Always assuming that there are no young children or other impressionable persons viewing this forum and if there are, from where or from whom do you suppose they would source the information required to form their own judgment ?.

There are numerous sites on the internet that should a young person be interested in forming an opinion all he or she has to do is study.

Let the young minds develop without mental constrains, or rather mental rape.
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Re: RELIGIONS: THE CURSE OF HUMANITY

Postby kurupetos » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:21 pm

You poor sods...
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Re: RELIGIONS: THE CURSE OF HUMANITY

Postby miltiades » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:52 pm

How about these ...poor sods !!
Aztec Human Sacrifice

Aztec Sacrifice4

The Aztecs began their elaborate theocracy in the 1300s and brought human sacrifice to a golden era. About 20,000 people were killed yearly to appease gods — especially the sun god, who needed daily “nourishment” of blood. Hearts of sacrifice victims were cut out, and some bodies were eaten ceremoniously. Other victims were drowned, beheaded, burned or dropped from heights. In a rite to the rain god, shrieking children were killed at several sites so that their tears might induce rain. In a rite to the maize goddess, a virgin danced for 24 hours, then was killed and skinned; her skin was worn by a priest in further dancing. One account says that at King Ahuitzotl’s coronation, 80,000 prisoners were butchered to please the gods.
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Re: RELIGIONS: THE CURSE OF HUMANITY

Postby miltiades » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:54 pm

miltiades wrote:How about these ...poor sods !!
Aztec Human Sacrifice

Aztec Sacrifice4

The Aztecs began their elaborate theocracy in the 1300s and brought human sacrifice to a golden era. About 20,000 people were killed yearly to appease gods — especially the sun god, who needed daily “nourishment” of blood. Hearts of sacrifice victims were cut out, and some bodies were eaten ceremoniously. Other victims were drowned, beheaded, burned or dropped from heights. In a rite to the rain god, shrieking children were killed at several sites so that their tears might induce rain. In a rite to the maize goddess, a virgin danced for 24 hours, then was killed and skinned; her skin was worn by a priest in further dancing. One account says that at King Ahuitzotl’s coronation, 80,000 prisoners were butchered to please the gods.



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Religion
8 Atrocities Committed in the Name of Religion

Listverse Staff April 2, 2008

Throughout history religion has been used as an excuse, or driving force, for some of the worst atrocities imaginable. From pre-history to modern history, religion is, for many people, just an excuse to kill other people. This list highlights eight of the worst atrocities (but not necessarily the top 8).
8

Buddhist Burma

Buddhist

Human sacrifices were still occurring in Buddhist Burma in the 1850s. When the capital was moved to Mandalay, 56 “spotless” men were buried beneath the new city walls to sanctify and protect the city. When two of the burial spots were later found empty, royal astrologers decreed that 500 men, women, boys, and girls must be killed and buried at once, or the capital must be abandoned. About 100 were actually buried before British governors stopped the ceremonies.

7

Thuggee Murders

Thugstrangle

Members of lndia’s Thuggee sect strangled people as sacrifices to appease the bloodthirsty goddess Kali, a practice beginning in the 1500s. The number of victims has been estimated to be as high as 2 million. Thugs were claiming about 20,000 lives a year in the 1800s until British rulers stamped them out. At a trial in 1840, one Thug was accused of killing 931 people. Today, some Hindu priests still sacrifice goats to Kali.
6

Mountain Meadows Massacre

Mountain-Meadows-Massacre-Iii

The Mountain Meadows massacre was a mass killing of the Fancher-Baker wagon train at Mountain Meadows in Utah Territory on September 11, 1857, by a group of Mormons and Paiute Indians. The Arkansas emigrants were traveling to California shortly before Utah War started. Mormons throughout the Utah Territory had been mustered to fight the invading United States Army, which they believed was intended to destroy them as a people. Initially intending to orchestrate an Indian massacre, two men with leadership roles in local military, church and government organizations, Isaac C. Haight and John D. Lee, conspired for Lee to lead militiamen disguised as Native Americans along with a contingent of Paiute tribesmen in an attack.

The emigrants fought back and a siege ensued. Intending to leave no witnesses of Mormon complicity in the siege and avoid reprisals complicating the Utah War, militiamen induced the emigrants to surrender and give up their weapons. After escorting the emigrants out of their fortification, the militiamen and their tribesmen auxiliaries executed approximately 120 men, women and children.
5

The Inquisition

Inquisition

The Medieval Inquisition is a series of Inquisitions (Roman Catholic Church bodies charged with suppressing heresy) from around 1184, including the Episcopal Inquisition (1184-1230s) and later the Papal Inquisition (1230s). It was in response to large popular movements throughout Europe considered apostate or heretical to Christianity, in particular Catharism and Waldensians in southern France and northern Italy. These were the first inquisition movements of many that would follow.

Torture was used after 1252. On May 15, Pope Innocent IV issued a papal bull entitled Ad exstirpanda, which authorized the use of torture by inquisitors. The Inquisitors were forbidden to use methods that resulted in bloodshed, mutilation or death. One of the more common forms of medieval inquisition torture was known as strappado. The hands were bound behind the back with a rope, and the accused was suspended this way, dislocating the joints painfully in both arms. Weights could be added to the legs dislocating those joints as well.

The organization is still active today under the name of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Prior to becoming Pope Benedict XVI, Cardinal Ratzinger was the head of the congregation.

4

The Witch Hunts

Salemwitchtrial-E

When Puritans settled in Massachusetts in the 1600s, they created a religious police state where doctrinal deviation could lead to flogging, pillorying, hanging, cutting off ears, or boring through the tongue with a hot iron. Preaching Quaker beliefs was a capital offense. Four stubborn Quakers defied this law and were hanged. In the 1690s fear of witches seized the colony. Twenty alleged witches were killed and 150 others imprisoned.
3

Roman Persecution of Christians

The Christian Martyrs Last Prayer By Leon Gerome

Christians were first, and horribly, targeted for persecution as a group by the emperor Nero in 64 AD. A colossal fire broke out at Rome, and destroyed much of the city. Rumors abounded that Nero himself was responsible. To divert attention from the rumors, Nero ordered that Christians should be rounded up and killed. Some were torn apart by dogs, others burnt alive as human torches. Over the next hundred years or so, Christians were sporadically persecuted. Then in the mid-third century, emperors initiated even more intensive persecutions. This, “The Great Persecution”, is considered the largest. Beginning with a series of four edicts banning Christian practices and ordering the imprisonment of Christian clergy, the persecution intensified until all Christians in the empire were commanded to sacrifice to the gods or face immediate execution. This persecution was to be the last, as Constantine I soon came into power and in 313 legalized Christianity.
2

Aztec Human Sacrifice

Aztec Sacrifice4

The Aztecs began their elaborate theocracy in the 1300s and brought human sacrifice to a golden era. About 20,000 people were killed yearly to appease gods — especially the sun god, who needed daily “nourishment” of blood. Hearts of sacrifice victims were cut out, and some bodies were eaten ceremoniously. Other victims were drowned, beheaded, burned or dropped from heights. In a rite to the rain god, shrieking children were killed at several sites so that their tears might induce rain. In a rite to the maize goddess, a virgin danced for 24 hours, then was killed and skinned; her skin was worn by a priest in further dancing. One account says that at King Ahuitzotl’s coronation, 80,000 prisoners were butchered to please the gods.
1

Islamic Jihads

Jihad1 380

Islamic jihads (holy wars), mandated by the Koran, killed millions over 12 centuries. In early years, Muslim armies spread the faith rapidly: east to India and west to Morocco. Then splintering sects branded other Muslims as infidels and declared jihads against them. The Kharijis battled Sunni rulers. The Azariqis decreed death to all “sinners” and their families. In 1804 a Sudanese holy man, Usman dan Fodio, waged a bloody jihad that broke the religious sway of the Sultan of Gobir. In the 1850s another Sudanese mystic, ‘Umar al-Hajj, led a barbaric jihad to convert pagan African tribes.
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Re: RELIGIONS: THE CURSE OF HUMANITY

Postby Maximus » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:22 pm

miltiades wrote:
Maximus wrote:
miltiades wrote:Here is a challenge to all those dreamers, do your own research into just one area.

Religion's contribution to human advancement, be it technological, medical, social, or peace on earth. Religious wars , conflicts, hatred have existed for thousands of years, exacerbated by false beliefs in a non existent creator.

Convince those of us who have seen the light that religion contributes to the well being of the human race.

Religious people, such as the psychopath, are delusional, cruel, spiteful and full of hate for their fellow humans.

Name just one tangible benefit, I don't mean hope, but a tangible benefit the human race has attained from religion.

The answer is NONE. Prove me wrong.


I will take up the other side of the debate but I think it is flawed: you can call me a dreamer if you like.

What you are trying to say is that religion has not contributed to technology, medicine and the sciences which of course, you are right. Religion is religion, science is science, they are different subjects. A scientist can be Christian, A computer programmer can be Muslim or Hindu, a priest is a Christian. Of course, a priest is probably not going to discover and create a vaccine for the Ebola virus but a medical researcher could and he could be a Christian.

Further more, religion is not tangible, it is spiritual.

Some years back I visited SrLanca with my then GP, now retired, a wonderful GP and a persoanl friend. We visited together a town called Nuwara Eliya, high up in the mountains in central Ceylon.

He was familiar with my views on religion and on entering a temple we came across worshippers, clearly very poor, dressed in torn clothing, saris.

He looked at me and said. If you had the power would you deprive these impoverished people of their religious beliefs ? My answer ofcourse was an emphatic NO.

Religion serves those in need of spiritual, whatever this is, guidance and hope. Those that are in need of these ubstract requirements are perfectly entitled to hold these beliefs. Children too, believe in Santa , it makes them happy so let them be.

The psychopath is of course very religious, well lets hope that some.... miracle cures him of his psychopathic tendencies.


Yes, at its core religion is (and should be) about guidance and hope. Its what it guides people to believe in that makes all the difference.

What a man thinks, so he shall become.

The Christian belief system preaches, for instance - Love thy neighbor. Do to others as you would have others do to you. Forgive those who trespass against us. Deliver us from evil. < This is not the curse of humanity.

Can you find me a verse in the bible that preaches hatred or anything which would curse its believers and humanity?

Have you read the Bible Milti?
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Re: RELIGIONS: THE CURSE OF HUMANITY

Postby miltiades » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:45 pm

Yes I have read the bible, a few times I might add.
While I find nothing to criticize in the New Testament, I consider the Old Testament as one of the cruellest books ever written by Man, especially Exodus.

Christianity has progressed from times gone by, Islam however has not.

The fact that I totally reject the existence of a creator does not in any way render me incapable of recognizing the spiritual contribution and influence that religions have on the human race.

Religious doctrine is divisive, contradictory to man's logic and utter anathema to vulnerable people who commit the most hideous crimes against humanity in the name of a non existent god.

I totally and irrevocably refute the mythology surrounding religion, any religion. I believe in humanity, in people, in science, medicine, technology and other such of mans inventions.
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Re: RELIGIONS: THE CURSE OF HUMANITY

Postby Maximus » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:59 pm

miltiades wrote:Yes I have read the bible, a few times I might add.
While I find nothing to criticize in the New Testament, I consider the Old Testament as one of the cruellest books ever written by Man, especially Exodus.

Christianity has progressed from times gone by, Islam however has not.

The fact that I totally reject the existence of a creator does not in any way render me incapable of recognizing the spiritual contribution and influence that religions have on the human race.

Religious doctrine is divisive, contradictory to man's logic and utter anathema to vulnerable people who commit the most hideous crimes against humanity in the name of a non existent god.

I totally and irrevocably refute the mythology surrounding religion, any religion. I believe in humanity, in people, in science, medicine, technology and other such of mans inventions.


For the record, I have not read the bible in its entirety but I thought that the book of exodus was about Moses freeing his enslaved people.

I also believe in humanity although some humans are despicable. I also believe in science, medicine and technology but man did not create the planets, the stars, the solar system, the galaxies and the physical laws that bind it all together.

Man did not put the materials on this earth, to create medicines or build computers and modes of transport, he just eventually discovered how to use the materials in an ingenious way, which, ultimately, is contributing to our destruction and the destruction of our planet.
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Re: RELIGIONS: THE CURSE OF HUMANITY

Postby miltiades » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:12 pm

And God created man to his own image !!
Yet totally impotent in getting through one of his creations!!! The Pharaoh just would not ...let his people go!!! Why his people, he created man to his own image, surely Pharaoh was just one of his creations. Mythology then tells us that in order to make Pharaoh change his mind and let .. his people go ???? He send down to earth his angels to kill the first born Egyptian child, his creations too I presume.How did the angels carry out this murderous act, strangulation maybe, beheadings ? The all ...mighty just could not make one of his creations see sense and let ..his people go. What a load of rubbish.

Let the Egyptian soldiers chase the Israelites and then part the seas and drown the poor bastards, his creations, Baloney, absolute mythological crap.
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Re: RELIGIONS: THE CURSE OF HUMANITY

Postby Get Real! » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:19 pm

miltiades wrote:I believe in humanity, in people,

"Savages" not included so that's Africa out of it, and Muslims not included so that's a further 2.2 billion excluded from the "humanity" that you believe in!

in science, medicine, technology and other such of mans inventions.

Sure! Better color televisions, electric cars, faster processors, and smarter phones should solve humanity’s problems!

I dread to think how shallow you were in your early years if you're this daft in your last! :lol:
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