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[Maximus]

Firstly RW,

I suggest you read my posts again because I have not dismissed anything.

Secondly, I am Atheist not because of the failings of religion but because of the lack of evidence or lack of any explanation that makes sense to me and some clear rational failings on their part.

I can't believe because man said so. They have to explain WHY and they have to come up with some evidence which for me science has to a great extent to satisfy my lack of belief.

What evidence has science provided you with about the non existence of God?

What has science told you about the reasons why god does not exist?

[Tim Drayton]

Firstly RW,

I suggest you read my posts again because I have not dismissed anything.

Secondly, I am Atheist not because of the failings of religion but because of the lack of evidence or lack of any explanation that makes sense to me and some clear rational failings on their part.

I can't believe because man said so. They have to explain WHY and they have to come up with some evidence which for me science has to a great extent to satisfy my lack of belief.

What evidence has science provided you with about the non existence of God?

What has science told you about the reasons why god does not exist?

You cannot prove the non-existence of something. That is why, in law, the burden of proof rests with the person making an allegation. Imagine that the police arrested you, said that you committed a crime last week and you have to prove that you didn't or else they were going to prosecute you, even though they had no evidence against you or were not accusing you of any specific crime. No, the police or public prosecution have to accuse you of a specific offence and prove beyond reasonable doubt that you did it. Of course science does not, and cannot, prove the non-existence of God, but this does not in turn prove the existence of God. The onus is on those who would have us believe in God to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he exists. Until such time, the possibility that he does is so remote that I will not believe it. Theoretically, there is a possibility that I will be struck by lightening later today. However, the odds against this are so remote that it is safe to dismiss this as an impossibility, In the same way, the explanation for the universe that it was all set up by an anthropomorphic entity to serve as a test to see which members of one species inhabiting a part of the universe so tiny that it is like one grain of sand on a beach, and only for a fraction of the total time that the universe exists, seems so bizarre and improbable to me that I totally discount it unless it is proved beyond reasonable doubt.

[Paphitis]

Firstly RW,

I suggest you read my posts again because I have not dismissed anything.

Secondly, I am Atheist not because of the failings of religion but because of the lack of evidence or lack of any explanation that makes sense to me and some clear rational failings on their part.

I can't believe because man said so. They have to explain WHY and they have to come up with some evidence which for me science has to a great extent to satisfy my lack of belief.

What evidence has science provided you with about the non existence of God?

What has science told you about the reasons why god does not exist?

And how is Science going to prove the non existence of God?

Science can only endeavor to look at how the universe was formed they have made some inroads in this area, however they may only just be scratching the surface. They do not make any claim that they know all the secrets of the universe like religions do. Science only makes claims for which they have evidence to back it up.

But since you make such claims, then it is up to you guys to supply the evidence to back these claims up and so far you have provided nothing whatsoever. All you demand is unquestioning faith and belief which simply does not hold water.

[Maximus]

I don't demand unquestioning faith. I don't care what people believe. If people choose to or otherwise not believe in God that is there prerogative.

What has science told us? It has provided us with a reasonable estimation as to when the universe was created and that it started with a big bang. That is all.

[Tim Drayton]

A further point worth raising is that indoctrinees of the God delusion assert that, since atheists are unable to explain what the purpose of the universe is, and they supposedly are, their world view is more valid. However, as the following quotes from the Bible show, the Bible tells us that it is predestined who will go to heaven and who to hell. Note the phrase from 2 Timothy 1:9 "not according to our works, but according to his [God's] own purpose and grace", i.e. it has nothing to do with our acts on this earth whether we go to heaven or hell. Some self-appointed religious expert here (who has been unable to tell me whether God created the beasts first and then man, as in Genesis 1, or created man first and then the beasts, as in Genesis 2) tells us it is all about a terrestrial world and a celestial world. OK. So, if it is predestined who will go to heaven and hell, who does God not simply create the souls in the celestial world and dispatch those he has predetermined to send to heaven immediately to heaven and send those he has predetermined to go to hell immediately to hell. What purpose does this physical universe then serve?

Acts 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Romans 8:29-30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Romans 9:15-16 18
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
...
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Ephesians 1:4-5
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
2 Thessalonians 2:11-13
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Paphitis]

I don't demand unquestioning faith. I don't care what people believe. If people choose to or otherwise not believe in God that is there prerogative.

What has science told us? It has provided us with a reasonable estimation as to when the universe was created and that it started with a big bang. That is all.

That is a hell of a lot more than what religion has told us!

[Maximus]

Further more, the bible is not limited to the explanation of creation of the universe. It is a book about ethics, morals, sacrifice. It is a guide provided in story format that can teach you how you can be a better person.

Nothing to do with science.

Its like comparing one of Steven Hawkins books with one of Dale Carnegie's or Napoleon Hill's.

[Tim Drayton]

I don't demand unquestioning faith. I don't care what people believe. If people choose to or otherwise not believe in God that is there prerogative.

What has science told us? It has provided us with a reasonable estimation as to when the universe was created and that it started with a big bang. That is all.

Science has only ever told us two things? Are you serious? Well, science has also established that combustion is a chemical reaction between the carbon in solid matter and atmospheric oxygen, in rejection of the phlogiston theory. That makes three. You think the list stops there?

[Tim Drayton]

Further more, the bible is not limited to the explanation of creation of the universe. It is a book about ethics, morals, sacrifice. It is a guide provided in story format that can teach you how you can be a better person.

Nothing to do with science.

Its like comparing one of Steven Hawkins books with one of Dale Carnegie's or Napoleon Hill's.

Ethics? So, which is right: 'An eye for an eye' or 'Turn the other cheek'?

[Paphitis]

Further more, the bible is not limited to the explanation of creation of the universe. It is a book about ethics, morals, sacrifice. It is a guide provided in story format that can teach you how you can be a better person.

Nothing to do with science.

Its like comparing one of Steven Hawkins books with one of Dale Carnegie's or Napoleon Hill's.

And why do we need this book of ethics?

Do you honestly believe that man would be any less ethical without the Bible? Is your religion a pre-requisite on ethical behavior?