Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... referendum

The idea that a numerical minority should have the right to block the will of a numerical majority because other wise it would be "democratically indefensible". Has some resonance I think.

[Get Real!]

You mean like in the case of the latest UNGA vote to lift the US embargo against Cuba where 188 countries voted for and just two stooges against? (US & Israel)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/ ... RN20141028

[Sotos]

The Scots are native to Britain (more so than the English) and they are the majority in Scotland, a territory which belongs to them and which they voluntarily keep as part of the UK. Scotland and England are part of the UK only because the Scottish and the English people decided that it is for their common interests to keep their territories united. If those common interests are trumped by some other major interests which they do not share (such as EU membership) the solution is easy: They split up, and in this way Scotland can be part of the EU (if EU wants them) while England can be out of EU... and in this way both the English and the Scottish can get what they want. The Scots can not force the English to be part of the EU if for the English being out of the EU is more important than maintaining the union with Scotland.

A non-native minority which doesn't have its own territory (e.g. Muslims in the UK) obviously can not have any such demands from the majority. That would be equivalent to giving a veto power to ethnic minorities living in Scotland in the Scottish independence referendum.

[CBBB]

Perhaps England should leave the United Kingdom, then they would be straight out of the EU leaving the remainder of the UK (Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland) in the EU.

Problem solved!

[Sotos]

Perhaps England should leave the United Kingdom, then they would be straight out of the EU leaving the remainder of the UK (Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland) in the EU.

Problem solved!

That is right. Nobody can force the English to be part of the EU. If for the English it is more important to be out of the EU than being part of the UK they can do just that with their own territory. Neither EU, nor the Scots, nor any ethnic minorities will have the right to stop them. That said ... I doubt that the English would do that because they have more control over Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland than they should... so it wouldn't be in their interests to dissolve the UK even if that meant staying in EU

[GreekIslandGirl]

Weak on analogies again, I see. "Scots" are not a political "community" recently imported into Britain.

The closest local-interest analogy to the Scotland/England as part of the greater Enosis of the UK symbolism, is more like what exists presently between Cyprus and our greater Hellenic state of Greece within the EU.

Furthermore, if anything, the nearest equivalent to Cyprus' history, in relation to the article, is that Scotland ( ~ Cyprus) wants to continue Enosis with the EU ( ~ Greece) and should be allowed a referendum (denied to Cyprus, 1950s) to have/continue Enosis with their ethnically/culturally similar kin of Europeans ( ~ Hellenismos).

Land stolen by Turkish tools (aka "TCs") in order to be occupied by Turkish troops to enforce Turkey's interests in Europe has no democratic correlate.

[Sotos]

There are many different situations were a group of people can be "numerically less". From native people who are still the majority of a territory (Scots, Kurds etc) who could be justified to demand as much as complete independence, down to illegal immigrants who entered the country yesterday and who could be deported. Claiming that the Turkish minority in Cyprus should have as much powers as the Scots or Kurds is as stupid as claiming that the TCs should have the same powers as the illegal immigrants who came yesterday. The Turkish minority in Cyprus is NOT analogous at all to any of the two extremes. It is analogous to the many other ethnic minorities which exist in most countries. Such minorities are equal citizens and have the right for their human and maybe some additional minority rights ... but no veto powers or the right to take for themselves part of territory which does not belong to them.

[Paphitis]

Sturgeon is just being a pain because the SNP lost the Scottish Independence Referendum.

The solution is a referendum on the EU. If the majority want out, then so be it. If not, then the UK should remain in the EU.

Problem solved and it can't get any simpler or fairer than that!

Sturgeon lost the referendum, and needs to respect the wishes of the majority. To divide the people and using the EU as the pretext is just very poor form.