Zan and Dayi, two Turkish Cypriot fanatics participating in the forum, claim that Partition is the only appropriate /logical /fair solution and that the TC Community is entitled (because of “kismet,”) to keep the entire 36% of Cyprus that Turkey currently occupies illegally, although the TC population in 1960 was only between 18-19% of the population in Cyprus.
This poll is directed towards all the TC forum members and its aim is to find out what their views are in relation to the above issue.
Please only TCs should answer the gallop!
Poll: What kind of solution do TCs support /aspire?
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Poll: What kind of solution do TCs support /aspire?
by Kifeas » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:54 am
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Kifeas - Main Contributor
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by zan » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:38 am
REJECTION OF CYPRIOTNESS In 1930 (on the election day), Under Secretary for the Colonies Dr. Drummond Shiels Visited Cyprus. While visiting Limassol, Dr. Shiels had a conversation with the veteran Greek Cypriot politician Inonnis Kyriakides, saying that the British would gladly call the Greeks of Cyprus, 'CYPRIOTS'. The veteran Greek Cypriot politician replied: "But Cyprus, your honour, is not a NATION. Cypriots are also the Turks and the Armenians born here. Why do you wish to avoid calling us by our name? ... We are among the most genuine and pure parts of HELLENISM; and while you know this, you avoid acknowledging our name." (Georghallides A political And Administrative History of Cyprus, 1918-1926 (Nicosia, 1979) p.398)
30 years later, Archbishop Makarios, the first President of the bi-communal partnership Republic of Cyprus, declared that "The agreements [the 1960 Accords] created a state, but not a nation" emphasizing that there was no nation called `Cypriots' and it neither existed in the past nor does it exist now...
GREEK REFUGEES Meanwhile Cyprus had become a safe place of Greek refugees from the Aegean islands invaded by Germany. It was estimated that during the last 3 years of the war around 12,000 Greek refugees arrived in Cyprus and were settled in special camps and lodgings provided by the government and Cyprus Mines Corporation. Many of them remained and settled in Cyprus after the war was over.
THE MACMILLAN PLAN The full text of the new British plan, was communicated to Ankara and Athens, on 10 June 1958. "The Greeks took a new and unexpected position. They now objected Turkey playing any part, in the controversy, on the grounds that by the Treaty of Lausanne Turkey had surrendered all her rights. This seemed a strange argument, since under the same Treaty Greece had equally accepted the British occupation." Macmillan, Op. Cit, p.668
INTERNATIONAL PRESS REPORTS "A few days ago 1,000 people lived here in the village of Skylloura. Then in a night of terror 350 men, women and children vanished. They were all Turks. ... In the neighbouring village of Ayios Vassilios , a mile away, I counted 16 wrecked and burned homes, they were all Turkish. From this village more than 100 Turks also vanished; in neither village did I find a scrap of damage to any Greek house. Peter Moorehead, Daily Herald, 1.1.1964 "On the Greek Cypriot side they have preferred the fighting to continue, leading to the extermination of the Turkish Community." The Times, 4.1.1964 "On Christmas eve many Turkish people were brutally attacked and murdered in their suburban homes..." The Manchester Guardian 31.12.63 "It is clear that a conspiracy exists to wreck the constitution which if it was workable, is unworkable now. But this does not entitle Greek Cypriots to scrap the constitution and opt for Enosis. The Daily Telegraph, Editorial 2.1.1964 On the Christmas eve the 21 remaining Turkish Cypriot patients at the Nicosia General Hospital were taken away by the Greek armed men never again to be seen.
MASS GRAVES In the evening Greek Cypriot terrorists raided Turkish and mixed villages near Nicosia and the Turkish inhabitants of Ayios Vasilios were brutally dragged away. Many of them were killed in cold blood and put in a mass grave. This mass grave was discovered on 13 January by the British truce force and the bodies of 21 Turkish Cypriot civilians were removed. The two sons, 19 and 17 years old, and the granddaughter aged 10, of a 70 year old Turk were lined up outside the cottage wall. The gunmen machine-gunned
them to death. In another house, a 13-year old boy had his hands tied behind his knees and was thrown on the floor. While the house was being ransacked, his captors kicked and abused him. Then a pistol was placed at the back of his head and he was shot. Altogether, 12 Turks were massacred that evening in Ayios Vasilios. Then the gunmen turned their attention to the Turkish houses. They looted and destroyed, and finally, exhausted, they set the houses on fire. In isolated farmhouses in the same region, nine more Turks were murdered. Gibbons, Op. Cit, p.73 The non-stop attacks on the Turks Continued until the Turkish jet fighters flew low, over Nicosia and the Turkish Army Contingent left its barracks to take strategic positions. It was then that Makarios accepted to talk to the Turkish Cypriot leaders on the terms of a cease-fire, which was never fully implemented.
Several Turkish homes were ablaze tonight in the Omorphita area of Nicosia, and others were looted by Greek irregulars. This has brought new tension to the situation. Daily Telegraph 1.1.64
The Turkish Cypriot refugees, who were living in tents at the Northern suburbs of Nicosia, were short of food and medicine. When on 11 March, a convoy of Red Crescent supplies were escorted to Nicosia by British armoured cars `they were halted by armed Greek Cypriots. The sacks of flour were thrown on the street and ripped open with bayonets.' H. S. Gibbons, Op. cit, p.152
The official figures published by the Turkish Cypriot Communal Chamber, stated `the number of Turks who received assistance from the Red Crescent relief amounted to about 56,000, including 25,000 displaced persons, 23,500 unemployed and 7,500 dependants of missing persons, disabled and others.' The UN Secretary-General, reported that, on receiving complaints about the starvation of Turkish Cypriots, `UNFICYP carried out a preliminary survey on 16 August 1964 and found that 40 percent of the (Turkish) villages had no flour and 25 percent had flour for only one or two weeks.' Rauf R. Denktas, The Cyprus Triangle, (London 1988), p.39
The Greek `hordes' rushed up, seized the UN troops who were supposed to keep the peace, and forcibly disarmed them. Then they smashed the UN radio to prevent their communication with UNFICYP headquarters. The attacks on the Kophinou Turks by the Greek forces were so brutal that Turkey decided to intervene under the Treaty of Guarantee, and thus once more the two NATO allies were brought to the brink of war. Even a 90-year-old Turkish villager who was paralyzed and confined to bed was riddled with machine gun bullets and then his mattress was set alight. Many Turks who were surrendered were taken away, with their hands raised, and machine-gunned. Turkish houses had set on fire after being looted. Six houses and the schools were completely destroyed by fire. Over 40 houses were partly destroyed. Following the information received that a Turkish air strike was imminent and Turkey might intervene, the Greeks began their withdrawal, on 16 November. The UN who moved in found 24 Turks dead including 2 women.
Instead they continued to attack Turkish areas and took hundreds of Turkish Cypriot civilians as prisoners, in addition to the hundreds they had taken hostage before the Geneva Conference. Thus, the Greek attacks caused the evacuation of another 33 Turkish villages. On top of that, the Greek atrocities towards Turkish civilians including women and children increased and became more brutal. Almost the whole population of Aloa, Sandallaris and Maratha near Famagusta and Tokhni, Zyyi and Mari at Larnaca district were massacred and wiped out.
The many Turkish villages were surrounded by hostile Greek forces and thousands of them were hostages in the hands of the Greek gunmen. `In the meantime Greek Cypriots started their massacres once again. 16,000 Turks had to abandon 38 more villages. Within the walls of Famagusta 10,000 Turks faced danger of starvation, while 4,000 flocked to Konedra (Knodhara) village surrounded by the Greek National Guard.' Ertekün, Necati Münir, In Search of Negotiated Cyprus Settlement, (Nicosia 1981), p. 30
Kismet?????
What happened to the land and houses of all these murdered people.
Also read what Makarios said about Cypriotness before you accuse others of being brainwashed.
30 years later, Archbishop Makarios, the first President of the bi-communal partnership Republic of Cyprus, declared that "The agreements [the 1960 Accords] created a state, but not a nation" emphasizing that there was no nation called `Cypriots' and it neither existed in the past nor does it exist now...
GREEK REFUGEES Meanwhile Cyprus had become a safe place of Greek refugees from the Aegean islands invaded by Germany. It was estimated that during the last 3 years of the war around 12,000 Greek refugees arrived in Cyprus and were settled in special camps and lodgings provided by the government and Cyprus Mines Corporation. Many of them remained and settled in Cyprus after the war was over.
THE MACMILLAN PLAN The full text of the new British plan, was communicated to Ankara and Athens, on 10 June 1958. "The Greeks took a new and unexpected position. They now objected Turkey playing any part, in the controversy, on the grounds that by the Treaty of Lausanne Turkey had surrendered all her rights. This seemed a strange argument, since under the same Treaty Greece had equally accepted the British occupation." Macmillan, Op. Cit, p.668
INTERNATIONAL PRESS REPORTS "A few days ago 1,000 people lived here in the village of Skylloura. Then in a night of terror 350 men, women and children vanished. They were all Turks. ... In the neighbouring village of Ayios Vassilios , a mile away, I counted 16 wrecked and burned homes, they were all Turkish. From this village more than 100 Turks also vanished; in neither village did I find a scrap of damage to any Greek house. Peter Moorehead, Daily Herald, 1.1.1964 "On the Greek Cypriot side they have preferred the fighting to continue, leading to the extermination of the Turkish Community." The Times, 4.1.1964 "On Christmas eve many Turkish people were brutally attacked and murdered in their suburban homes..." The Manchester Guardian 31.12.63 "It is clear that a conspiracy exists to wreck the constitution which if it was workable, is unworkable now. But this does not entitle Greek Cypriots to scrap the constitution and opt for Enosis. The Daily Telegraph, Editorial 2.1.1964 On the Christmas eve the 21 remaining Turkish Cypriot patients at the Nicosia General Hospital were taken away by the Greek armed men never again to be seen.
MASS GRAVES In the evening Greek Cypriot terrorists raided Turkish and mixed villages near Nicosia and the Turkish inhabitants of Ayios Vasilios were brutally dragged away. Many of them were killed in cold blood and put in a mass grave. This mass grave was discovered on 13 January by the British truce force and the bodies of 21 Turkish Cypriot civilians were removed. The two sons, 19 and 17 years old, and the granddaughter aged 10, of a 70 year old Turk were lined up outside the cottage wall. The gunmen machine-gunned
them to death. In another house, a 13-year old boy had his hands tied behind his knees and was thrown on the floor. While the house was being ransacked, his captors kicked and abused him. Then a pistol was placed at the back of his head and he was shot. Altogether, 12 Turks were massacred that evening in Ayios Vasilios. Then the gunmen turned their attention to the Turkish houses. They looted and destroyed, and finally, exhausted, they set the houses on fire. In isolated farmhouses in the same region, nine more Turks were murdered. Gibbons, Op. Cit, p.73 The non-stop attacks on the Turks Continued until the Turkish jet fighters flew low, over Nicosia and the Turkish Army Contingent left its barracks to take strategic positions. It was then that Makarios accepted to talk to the Turkish Cypriot leaders on the terms of a cease-fire, which was never fully implemented.
Several Turkish homes were ablaze tonight in the Omorphita area of Nicosia, and others were looted by Greek irregulars. This has brought new tension to the situation. Daily Telegraph 1.1.64
The Turkish Cypriot refugees, who were living in tents at the Northern suburbs of Nicosia, were short of food and medicine. When on 11 March, a convoy of Red Crescent supplies were escorted to Nicosia by British armoured cars `they were halted by armed Greek Cypriots. The sacks of flour were thrown on the street and ripped open with bayonets.' H. S. Gibbons, Op. cit, p.152
The official figures published by the Turkish Cypriot Communal Chamber, stated `the number of Turks who received assistance from the Red Crescent relief amounted to about 56,000, including 25,000 displaced persons, 23,500 unemployed and 7,500 dependants of missing persons, disabled and others.' The UN Secretary-General, reported that, on receiving complaints about the starvation of Turkish Cypriots, `UNFICYP carried out a preliminary survey on 16 August 1964 and found that 40 percent of the (Turkish) villages had no flour and 25 percent had flour for only one or two weeks.' Rauf R. Denktas, The Cyprus Triangle, (London 1988), p.39
The Greek `hordes' rushed up, seized the UN troops who were supposed to keep the peace, and forcibly disarmed them. Then they smashed the UN radio to prevent their communication with UNFICYP headquarters. The attacks on the Kophinou Turks by the Greek forces were so brutal that Turkey decided to intervene under the Treaty of Guarantee, and thus once more the two NATO allies were brought to the brink of war. Even a 90-year-old Turkish villager who was paralyzed and confined to bed was riddled with machine gun bullets and then his mattress was set alight. Many Turks who were surrendered were taken away, with their hands raised, and machine-gunned. Turkish houses had set on fire after being looted. Six houses and the schools were completely destroyed by fire. Over 40 houses were partly destroyed. Following the information received that a Turkish air strike was imminent and Turkey might intervene, the Greeks began their withdrawal, on 16 November. The UN who moved in found 24 Turks dead including 2 women.
Instead they continued to attack Turkish areas and took hundreds of Turkish Cypriot civilians as prisoners, in addition to the hundreds they had taken hostage before the Geneva Conference. Thus, the Greek attacks caused the evacuation of another 33 Turkish villages. On top of that, the Greek atrocities towards Turkish civilians including women and children increased and became more brutal. Almost the whole population of Aloa, Sandallaris and Maratha near Famagusta and Tokhni, Zyyi and Mari at Larnaca district were massacred and wiped out.
The many Turkish villages were surrounded by hostile Greek forces and thousands of them were hostages in the hands of the Greek gunmen. `In the meantime Greek Cypriots started their massacres once again. 16,000 Turks had to abandon 38 more villages. Within the walls of Famagusta 10,000 Turks faced danger of starvation, while 4,000 flocked to Konedra (Knodhara) village surrounded by the Greek National Guard.' Ertekün, Necati Münir, In Search of Negotiated Cyprus Settlement, (Nicosia 1981), p. 30
Kismet?????
What happened to the land and houses of all these murdered people.
Also read what Makarios said about Cypriotness before you accuse others of being brainwashed.
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zan - Leading Contributor
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by zan » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:40 am
http://www.atcanews.org/documents/HISTO ... GROUND.pdf
In case you would like to read more on real events and what a load of crap you are talking. I doubt very much that you do though because its a wake up call that people like you cannot handle. The truth, you cant handle the truth.........
In case you would like to read more on real events and what a load of crap you are talking. I doubt very much that you do though because its a wake up call that people like you cannot handle. The truth, you cant handle the truth.........
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zan - Leading Contributor
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by Viewpoint » Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:27 am
The momentum of recognized partition on both sides will grow as long as the status quo continues, everyone will realize that their is no real or genuine desire to unite and that what we have now is the best solution we can find as we are incapable and not commited to creating a new shared Cyprus. I said this 2 years ago and still stick by this idea as GCs and TCs demonstrate time and time again that they do want to live together, its all talk, hot air, otherwise a solution would have been found a long time ago 
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Viewpoint - Leading Contributor
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by BirKibrisli » Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:40 am
Dear Zan,
I am surprized that you as an intelligent and cultured TC cannot see what your post is:highly selected propaganda to support partition.Now before you or Eric Dayi jump on me,I am not saying that post does not contain events which happened.Now a GC can easily come up with a similar propaganda post,a collection of isolated events which might be true but presented in a way to have maximum emotive effect.
Aren't you guys sick of repeating this stuff which is designed to keep the hatred and mistrust between the two communities alive?
When are we going to rise above this primitive stage where we keep vomiting up all this venom only to swallow it whole again for the next time?It is a great shame.
I am surprized that you as an intelligent and cultured TC cannot see what your post is:highly selected propaganda to support partition.Now before you or Eric Dayi jump on me,I am not saying that post does not contain events which happened.Now a GC can easily come up with a similar propaganda post,a collection of isolated events which might be true but presented in a way to have maximum emotive effect.
Aren't you guys sick of repeating this stuff which is designed to keep the hatred and mistrust between the two communities alive?
When are we going to rise above this primitive stage where we keep vomiting up all this venom only to swallow it whole again for the next time?It is a great shame.
Last edited by BirKibrisli on Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BirKibrisli - Main Contributor
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by zan » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:09 am
Birkibrisli wrote:Dear Zan,
I am surprized that you as an intelligent and cultured TC cannot see that What your post is:highly selected propaganda to support partition.Now before you or Eric Dayi jump on me,I am not saying that post does not contain events which happened.Now a GC can easily come up with a similar propaganda post,a collection of isolated events which might be true but presented in a way to have maximum emotive effect.
Aren't you guys sick of repeating this stuff which is designed to keep the hatred and mistrust between the two communities alive?
When are we going to rise above this primitive stage where we keep vomiting up all this venom only to swallow it whole again for the next time?It is a great shame.
Birkibrisli
My post was selected from the site that I also posted. You can always go there and read the entire 97 pages of events and put my selection into context. I selected those pieces to make a point about the land claims of Piratis and Alexios offering just 18% of a land that should have been handed back to Turkey after the British decided to leave. I however am not laying claim to the whole Island but there are those that are. When I returned to the forum I saw this stupid poll which is purely a personal attack on Eric dayi and myself and decided to post the whole thing here. Where is your complaint about some one as biased and brainwashed as Kifeas posting personal attacks. Where is your outrage? Where is your sense of injustice?
The answer to your final question is I will never get fed up from posting data that I know to be true. Not as long as people like Kifeas post rubbish that they know to be untrue. Where there is hate I will hate. Visit the site Birkibrisli see how the events unfolded and when you get to 1960 know that I was born and my parents had been living there through it. When you get to Black Christmas know that I was in a bath with my siblings whilst the Greeks were killing other children in their bath not a few hundred yards away. Note all the houses that were burnt down and people killed. What happened to their houses and land as they were being ethnically cleansed? Piratis keeps coming out with a magic number of 200,000 where is your sense of injustice at that load of crap. I let him post it and only complain a little because he just makes himself look stupid. 200,000 homes????
I wonder what a poll would show if I set it up to show Kifeass' intelligence but then there is no need to set one up every time he opens his mouth he gives himself away.
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zan - Leading Contributor
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by zan » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:20 am
Alexios wrote:Tell me Zan, what do you personally have to gain from partition of Cyprus?? Be careful what you say because as you know i am a secret agent and have lots of information...
Identity, safety of my family who live there and a sense that I helped to heal the wounds that are still festering on both sides. I genuinely believe that the two sides cannot come to an agreement and must see that reality.
A chance for me to say to my friend Fedos, at last they are just getting on with their lives and we don’t have to be embarrassed about talking about it together.
I will tell you what my family will lose as well. 64 donums that is slap bang in the middle of the buffer zone. Helal olsun.
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zan - Leading Contributor
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Are you here to discuss anything or to just copy paste the same old propaganda? 
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