Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Excommo is an American, he says.

He wants to adopt a book titled Aphrodite's Killers, the title is indicative of the content here, covering a conflict that cost roughly 200 British lives. I bet more than that were lost in an hour of battle during the 1776 American Revolution. Has anyone written a book with a similar denigrating title about the Americans? Has any European incorporated this book, if written, in their historic review? I doubt it.

A treasured antique item for many American is the Kentucky rifle, a deadly implement used by guerrilas in ambushes against the British and in no other conflict. I mention it as a counterbalance to the usual charge that EOKA shot Britons in the back. Where did the Kentucky rifle toting rebels shoot them? Always in the front and with prior warning?

As for those that find current Cypriot-British friendship strange, just think of the term "our American cousins" used by the British who lost thousands of troops in 1776.

Also notice that Excommo left after he stirred up the dirt. How unamerican of him!

[erolz66]

I am Greek and English is not my first language. Patriot is a word with a Greek root and I explained to you what it means in Greek. If in English the word can apply only to ethnic groups then nobody can be a "Cypriot patriot" because there is no such thing as a "Cypriot ethnicity".

Sotos if you want to know the defined meaning of an English word look it up in a dictionary. There are many available online. That is what dictionaries are for. The definition of the word is simple and straight forward and the same whichever dictionary you choose. None of them speak of it being a love for a local region and none of them mention ethnic group. They all define patriot as applying to country, nothing else.

What you really need to ask yourself is why is it so upsetting to you to accept the statement "Anyone who fights for uniting Cyprus with Greece, is by definition a GREEK patriot and thus can not be a CYPRIOT patriot." such that you have to try and change the dictionary defined meaning of the word patriot.

[Viewpoint]

Miltiades, please go ahead we would love to read about your experiences.

[miltiades]

My real life stories are TRUE, as they happened all those years ago. Barely anyone in Stroumbi The Great or elsewhere had access to a radio, a telephone, TV was not existent in Cyprus in 1955.

I feel that I ought to present a new thread in the General section and not interrupt the ongoing discussions on this here thread. I will do so shortly and I solemnly swear that my recollections are TRUE , and based on my own experience coupled with those of my older, almost 75 year old brother, who played an active part in the struggle of 1955.

Will come back soon, right now trying to shake off a cold that did not allow me to have my op that was due on Tuesday 16th September.

[Sotos]

I am Greek and English is not my first language. Patriot is a word with a Greek root and I explained to you what it means in Greek. If in English the word can apply only to ethnic groups then nobody can be a "Cypriot patriot" because there is no such thing as a "Cypriot ethnicity".

Sotos if you want to know the defined meaning of an English word look it up in a dictionary. There are many available online. That is what dictionaries are for. The definition of the word is simple and straight forward and the same whichever dictionary you choose. None of them speak of it being a love for a local region and none of them mention ethnic group. They all define patriot as applying to country, nothing else.

What you really need to ask yourself is why is it so upsetting to you to accept the statement "Anyone who fights for uniting Cyprus with Greece, is by definition a GREEK patriot and thus can not be a CYPRIOT patriot." such that you have to try and change the dictionary defined meaning of the word patriot.

According to Wikipedia: "interpretations of the term vary with context, geography and political ideology." My interpretation is the original Greek meaning of the word. Why do you have a problem with this?

[erolz66]

According to Wikipedia: "interpretations of the term vary with context, geography and political ideology." My interpretation is the original Greek meaning of the word. Why do you have a problem with this?

Because what varies with interpretation is what traits, qualities and behaviours are considered compatible with a patriot. What does NOT vary is that the term ALWAYS applies to a person's relationship to a COUNTRY. So Noam Chomsky, famous American political activist and critic of US government polices, is considered by some to be an American Patriot and by other not. That is what varies according to 'interpretation'. What does NOT vary is if he is or is not an American patriot.

With every post Sotos you just show more and more how much you are simply unable to countenance or accept the simple statement "Anyone who fights for uniting Cyprus with Greece, is by definition a GREEK patriot and thus can not be a CYPRIOT patriot." You have not yet even begun on the real interesting part, which is WHY you are unable to accept or countenance this. You continue to try instead to just redefine the very meaning of the word patriot, so that you do not have to deal with the cognitive dissonance that the statement "Anyone who fights for uniting Cyprus with Greece, is by definition a GREEK patriot and thus can not be a CYPRIOT patriot." clearly creates in your head. Your desperation to try and find an 'out' so you do not have to confront the truth of the statement is palpable.

[Sotos]

Because what varies with interpretation is what traits, qualities and behaviours are considered compatible with a patriot.

The wikipedia article states clearly that it is the interpretation of the TERM itself that varies... not merely the "traits, qualities and behaviours that are considered compatible" (those vary with most things). And I know for a fact that in Greek, which is the original, the meaning is what I told you it is and I pointed you to the dictionary: http://el.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%80%CE ... E%B4%CE%B1 "Patriotis" is somebody who is from the same "patrida" or somebody who loves his "patrida". And "Patrida" can mean country but can also mean village/town or area of origin. And if you want to take it a step further "Patrida" is coming from the word "pateras" which means father.

[erolz66]

Because what varies with interpretation is what traits, qualities and behaviours are considered compatible with a patriot.

The wikipedia article states clearly that it is the interpretation of the TERM itself that varies... not merely the "traits, qualities and behaviours that are considered compatible" (those vary with most things). And I know for a fact that in Greek, which is the original, the meaning is what I told you it is and I pointed you to the dictionary: http://el.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%80%CE ... E%B4%CE%B1 "Patriotis" is somebody who is from the same "patrida" or somebody who loves his "patrida". And "Patrida" can mean country but can also mean village/town or area of origin. And if you want to take it a step further "Patrida" is coming from the word "pateras" which means father.

Like I say Sotos your desperation to avoid having to confront the idea that someone seeking to unite Cyprus with another country can not by definition be a Cypriot patriot is palpable.

The fact is every dictionary definition of the English word Patriot refers to a persons relationship to a COUNTRY. Thus by definition someone who seeks to deny an area the status of COUNTRY in its own right by instead making it part of some other COUNTRY can only be said to a patriot of the COUNTRY he seeks to unite with. They can not possibly be said to be a patriot of the very place they claim should NOT be a country in its own right, because the term Patriot APPLIES to COUNTRY. That is what it MEANS. That is its universal dictionary DEFINED meaning.

All of the above is uninteresting pedantry. What however IS interesting is the lengths you will go to to try and avoid having to accept this very plain and simple truth because of the cognitive dissonance it causes to you.

Lengths like trying to redefine the word in ways that not a single dictionary definition supports (like it can mean a persons relationship to a local area or to an ethnic group). Lengths like trying to use the meaning of the root of the word from 2000 years ago rather than its actual current dictionary defined meaning. Lengths like trying to make out the wiki article on it supports the notion that it is a matter of 'interpretation' as to if the term means a person relation to something other than a country, despite the definitive and unambiguous definitions in dictionary after dictionary. These are the desperate actions of someone who simply can not accept the truth that as the word patriot is defined in English you just can not have supported the union of Cyprus with Greece and be a Cypriot patriot as well.

[Sotos]

As wikipedia says "interpretations of the term vary with context, geography and political ideology." My interpretation is the original Greek meaning of the word as we native Cypriots use it. If the English lost part of the meaning in translation that is a different story. There is no "cognitive dissonance" in my part because the Greek meaning is very clear. But for the English speakers it must be really confusing. According to merriam-webster, the full definition of the term is "one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests" So how could there be "American Patriots" before there was any American country? How can you love and support the authority and interests of something that doesn't exist? Thats what you get when you take a word from another language and reduce its meaning!! But in Greek there is no such confusion because a "patriotis" is somebody who loves his homeland/fatherland, and that homeland can be from a single vllage, to a greater area like an island and the whole territory inhabited by our Ethnos.... and not necessarily defined by the borders of a country which is not even necessary to exist in order to be a Patriotis in Greek.

[erolz66]

As wikipedia says "interpretations of the term vary with context, geography and political ideology." My interpretation is the original Greek meaning of the word as we native Cypriots use it. If the English lost part of the meaning in translation that is a different story. There is no "cognitive dissonance" in my part because the Greek meaning is very clear. But for the English speakers it must be really confusing. According to merriam-webster, the full definition of the term is "one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests" So how could there be "American Patriots" before there was any American country? How can you love and support the authority and interests of something that doesn't exist? Thats what you get when you take a word from another language and reduce its meaning!! But in Greek there is no such confusion because a "patriotis" is somebody who loves his homeland/fatherland, and that homeland can be from a single vllage, to a greater area like an island and the whole territory inhabited by our Ethnos.... and not necessarily defined by the borders of a country which is not even necessary to exist in order to be a Patriotis in Greek.

LOL - you really ARE desperate

For English speakers there is NOTHING confusing. The word has a clear DEFINED unambiguous meaning. The American patriots were American patriots because they were fighting to CREATE an American country and nation. That is what defined them as American patriots. There is no ambiguity or confusion there. However YOUR claim is actually the British Loyalists in America could validly ALSO be called American patriots as well as British patriots, because they loved the 'region' of America but wanted it to be and remain part of Britain. That is the absurdity of your argument. And you claim you are not driven to such desperation by the cognitive dissonance the statement 'someone seeking to unite Cyprus with Greece can only be a Greek patriot and can not, by definition, be a Cypriot patriot' ?