Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Dont you GCs think it ironic and also hypocritical that you wanted to get rid of British Rule by killing Brits to become part of Greece yet had no problem moving to the UK for a better life, why didnt you all go live in Greece?

I seem to recall that many nationals of countries that fought for independence either against the Brits or others have emigrated to those very countries they fought against. Why should we all go and live in Greece, why dont you go and live in Turkey.

May I also add that millions of immigrants who despice our way of life in the West are killing themselves trying to get into Europe !!

[erolz66]

I would love to know the items in David's book that he acknowledged as being bogus information. Would insert them in my book.

So would I. What you have to understand is there is the real world and then there is GiG's (formerly 'oracle') propaganda fantasy world.

So for example in the real world David made 15 posts on this forum. In the real world on some of them he was, rather than correcting the 'lies' he had told in his books or website as GiG would have you believe, he was actually correcting the lies being told ABOUT him by people on the forum. Lies like the very SAME ones GiG now repeats in her post, that he was a 'groupie' of Asil Nadir and Denktash etc. This is the real world, easily verifiable in publically viewable text as the link below to one of David's 15 posts here shows.

cyprus23492-380.html#p445136

The you have GiG's fantasy propaganda world, where David came here in shame and remorse, with mortality staring him in the face, to correct HIS lies. As ever with the fantasy GiG world, there is no actual proof of this. Certainly not in any of the 15 posts he ACTUALY made here, nor as ever with GiG's fantasy world is there any need for such proof. There mere fact she states it by definition (in her head) MAKES it true. Sure we get, when she is challenged, some alleged 'proof' that he 'remorsefully corrected his former lies ' due to 'regret' - but of course it turns out that such proof is not in anything he wrote PUBLICALY on the forum, that all can see, but in fact only in PRIVATE messages to GiG / Oracle, that only she can see. Quell Surprise.

My advise would be stick top the real world and what can be verified directly and easily by yourself and try and avoid GiG's propaganda based fantasy world.

[erolz66]

We are Greek, so how can being free equal citizens of a Greek state, like it is the case with all other Greek islands, be compared with being colonial subjects of a foreign empire? As always you are talking nonsense. If YOU are not Greek... because you have be brought up abroad and you even have English as your main language, then realize you are an ANOMALY, and NOT representative in any way of the vast majority of Cypriots.

Anyone who fights for uniting Cyprus with Greece, is by definition a GREEK patriot and thus can not be a CYPRIOT patriot. Anyone who fights for uniting Cyprus with Turkey is a Turkish patriot and thus can not be a CYPRIOT patriot, Anyone who fights for Cypriot independence, despite what their cultural and ethnic background may be is a CYPRIOT patriot. It really is that simple.

It does not matter how many Greek patriots there may have been or what % of the total population they may or may not have been, if they fight for the gifting of Cyprus to Greece, then they can not be, by definition, a Cypriot patriot, only a Greek patriot.

In the 1770's American patriots were (in large numbers) British in every sense, legally, culturally, ethnically and in every way. What distinguished them from British patriots was the very fact that they fought for their independence DESPITE their British cultural, ethnic, linguist, religious roots.

[Demonax]

Anyone who fights for uniting Cyprus with Greece, is by definition a GREEK patriot and thus can not be a CYPRIOT patriot. .

This is where you go wrong. Those who fought for uniting Crete with Greece were both Cretan and Greek patriots. This is because they considered Crete to be a Greek island. Similarly those who fought to unite Cyprus to Greece considered Cyprus to be a Greek island. Thus in their eyes there was no distinction between Cypriot and Greek patriotism.

In order to understand the ideals and patriotism of EOKA then you have to place it in the context not of the American revolution but of the Greek struggle for independence. The EOKA guerillas identified themselves with the klephtic tradition in Greece and saw themselves as heirs to that tradition.

[erolz66]

Anyone who fights for uniting Cyprus with Greece, is by definition a GREEK patriot and thus can not be a CYPRIOT patriot. .

This is where you go wrong. Those who fought for uniting Crete with Greece were both Cretan and Greek patriots. This is because they considered Crete to be a Greek island. Similarly those who fought to unite Cyprus to Greece considered Cyprus to be a Greek island. Thus in their eyes there was no distinction between Cypriot and Greek patriotism.

No this is where YOU go wrong my friend. Those Cretans who fought to unite it with Greece were GREEK patriots. As you say they did not believe in the very concept of a separate independent Cretian country, nation or state. Thus it is impossible for them to have been Cretian patriots. Unless you want to just start redefining words that is, to suit your needs. Look up the dictionary definition of 'patriot'. A patriot is someone who supports his or her country. You can not therefore be a Cretian patriot if you believe that there is and should be no such country as Crete and it is just a part of Greece. All you can be is a Greek patriot.

In order to understand the ideals and patriotism of EOKA then you have to place it in the context not of the American revolution but of the Greek struggle for independence. The EOKA guerillas identified themselves with the klephtic tradition in Greece and saw themselves as heirs to that tradition.

Exactly they (at least the ones who were fighting for enosis and not independence) were GREEK patriots.

[Demonax]

[

No this is where YOU go wrong my friend. Those Cretans who fought to unite it with Greece were GREEK patriots. As you say they did not believe in the very concept of a separate independent Cretian country, nation or state.

I'm sorry but you are just mistaken on this. If you don't know what Cretan patriotism is then you have never met a Cretan. The fact that Cretans were not fighting for a separate Cretan state is irrelevant. Cretans saw themselves as fighting both for Greece AND for Crete. You only have to read the works of Kazantzakis to understand that for Cretans patriotism was both a local and a wider struggle. They were fighting for Crete as well as for their country. Cretan patriotism in some senses even precedes Greek patriotism. Fighting for Crete is a fight for Greece. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp. During WW2 Cretans fought the Nazis to liberate, as they saw it, both Crete and Greece from the Nazis. It’s the same thing to them.

[Get Real!]

Chirokitia was just a small prehistoric settlement ... not a "civilization". And such prehistoric settlements existed all around the world.

A community of 300 odd houses (or 600-700 people) neatly arranged with walkways, a sewerage system, domesticated animals, etc, in 8000BC isn’t just considered a “civilization” but a METROPOLIS for those days!

The fact that in Cyprus we are Greek is as proven as the fact that the earth revolves around the sun. Only an idiot such as yourself would question such a fact. Since you are a traitor and you do not respect the constitution of Cyprus here it is from the CIA factbook:Ethnic groups: Greek 77%
Languages: Greek (official) 80.9%
Religions: Greek Orthodox 78%

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/cy.html

So your evidence that you are "Greek" is the "cia factbook"?

[Get Real!]

Dont you GCs think it ironic and also hypocritical that you wanted to get rid of British Rule by killing Brits to become part of Greece yet had no problem moving to the UK for a better life, why didnt you all go live in Greece?

They caused a fucking mess on Cyprus just to appease Athens and then move to England!

And today we’ve got that little lying midget peasant pretending to be an “English gentleman”!

Oh the irony…

[Get Real!]

Why should we all go and live in Greece,

How stupid can you possibly be?

People (you claim to had fought with) lost their lives to UNITE with Greece and you moved to England?

You fucking little midget... you were a DOUBLE TRAITOR... a traitor to everything around you!

You despicable little oompa loompa!

[erolz66]

I'm sorry but you are just mistaken on this. If you don't know what Cretan patriotism is then you have never met a Cretan. The fact that Cretans were not fighting for a separate Cretan state is irrelevant. Cretans saw themselves as fighting both for Greece AND for Crete. You only have to read the works of Kazantzakis to understand that for Cretans patriotism was both a local and a wider struggle. They were fighting for Crete as well as for their country. Cretan patriotism in some senses even precedes Greek patriotism. Fighting for Crete is a fight for Greece. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp. During WW2 Cretans fought the Nazis to liberate, as they saw it, both Crete and Greece from the Nazis. It’s the same thing to them.

Like I say if you just want to ignore what words actually mean and redefine them to your own needs at will then sure I am mistaken. If however you want to use such words in their proper defined way then you are wrong and clearly so. A Londoner fighting the Nazi's in word war II , was fighting for London, or his part of it and for England. However only a mad man or someone with very specific propaganda needs would try and argue he was a London patriot as well as a English one. Patriotism - BY DEFINITON - applies to your COUNTRY. That does not mean that you are detached from your local area within that country, or do not love it or care about it or it is not the motivation for your actions. But it DOES mean you can NOT be a patriot of your 'local part' of a country. That is just not what the word patriot means.

You can not fight for the union of Cyprus with Greece (or with Turkey) and be a Cypriot patriot. You can ONLY be a Greek (or Turkish) patriot in such a case. The ONLY way you can be a Cypriot patriot is if you fight for Cyprus to be its own separate country. I know this is hard for you to accept but this is just the reality of what these words mean. The real interesting thing is can you work out why this is so difficult for you, such that you have to end up breaking the very meaning of the word patriot ?