Cyprus-Forum.com

[Sotos]

Which definition of "patriot" in English has the word "CREATE" in it? Give me a link. Also, do you speak Greek and are you even in position to argue with me about the original full meaning of the word?

[Sotos]

Greek is my native language so I stick to the original meaning of the word. But it seems that you native English speakers can not decide what the word means for you. For example: "Gordon Brown: Scottish patriots should vote NO" http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/480080 ... ld-vote-No He is the former Prime Minister of UK, so I guess he should know better English than me. And yet he says that it is patriotic for the Scotish people to vote in favor of Union with England even though the Scotish and the English are totally different people (which is not the case for Cyprus and the Greeks). The columinists of Financial Times should know proper English also and yet this article states "Scotland’s patriots can vote for the union" http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/b4e98426 ... abdc0.html So maybe you native English speakers should decide what the word means to you... but you can decide that it means "scrubbled eggs" and I coulodn't care less, because I speak Greek and I know what the real full meaning of the word is.

[erolz66]

Which definition of "patriot" in English has the word "CREATE" in it? Give me a link.

You are just being silly now. The word patriot, in English, in its usage today, is defined as a person relationship to a country. That can be a country that already exits and it can be a country that person wishes to exist. What it can NOT be is a persons relationship to an area they specifically do not want to exist as a country, yet this is the essence of your 'argument'. You argue this for the sole reason that you can not fit in your head the simple truth of the simple statement 'someone seeking to unite Cyprus with Greece can only be a Greek patriot and can not, by definition, be a Cypriot patriot'.

The absurdity of your position is clearly shown by the 'American' example. Using 'my' (and when I say 'my' I mean the actual universally accepted dictionary definition of the word) definition of patriot in the American example, what differentiates an 'American Patriot' from a 'British Loyalist American' is that one seeks to make America a country and the other seeks for it not to be a country. Using 'your' definition both groups could be validly called American Patriots. Its absurd ands this is the contradiction you have to deal with and that you keep ignoring.

Also, do you speak Greek and are you even in position to argue with me about the original full meaning of the word?

No I do not speak Greek and I have no interest in arguing about the ROOTS of the English word patriot and what meanings those ROOTS may have had thousands of years ago. I have made a simple, factually correct statement in English. What is interesting to me is the lengths people like you will go to to try and deny the truth of the statement because it 'hurts their head' to accept it.

[erolz66]

Greek is my native language so I stick to the original meaning of the word. But it seems that you native English speakers can not decide what the word means for you. For example: "Gordon Brown: Scottish patriots should vote NO" http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/480080 ... ld-vote-No He is the former Prime Minister of UK, so I guess he should know better English than me. And yet he says that it is patriotic for the Scotish people to vote in favor of Union with England even though the Scotish and the English are totally different people (which is not the case for Cyprus and the Greeks). The columinists of Financial Times should know proper English also and yet this article states "Scotland’s patriots can vote for the union" http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/b4e98426 ... abdc0.html So maybe you native English speakers should decide what the word means to you... but you can decide that it means "scrubbled eggs" and I coulodn't care less, because I speak Greek and I know what the real full meaning of the word is.

Again your desperation is palpable. Scotland IS a COUNTRY, be it an independent one, or one that exists in a union with the other countries of England and Wales. Thus there is no contradiction in saying a Scottish patriot can support the continued UNION of the COUNTRY of Scotland, with the COUNTRIES of England and Wales. If the vote was about ENDING Scotland's status AS a country and instead making it a REGION of ENGLAND, then clearly someone who supported such a move could not be called a Scottish patriot BECAUSE they seek the end of the existence of the place of Scotland as a COUNTRY. Your 'argument' (and I use the term loosely) is that someone from Scotland who sought to end the existence of Scotland as a COUNTRY, could still be called a Scottish patriot. Its an absurd argument and the ONLY reason you try and hold onto it is because you can not fit in your head the reality of the statement 'someone seeking to unite Cyprus with Greece can only be a Greek patriot and can not, by definition, be a Cypriot patriot'.

What you SHOULD be asking yourself is WHY is that simple statement so difficult for you to accept, that you have to go to such absurd lengths to try and avoid having to accept it. THAT is the interesting part.

[Lordo]

are you really saying that the greeks and greek cypriots are the same people. sotos you are just out of your depth. let me introduce you to another word derived from greek one biology. have a look at your dna and an average gc dna and see that you are closer to the terkish dna then anybody else.

my word there are some dead wood in this here forum.

[kurupetos]

are you really saying that the greeks and greek cypriots are the same people. sotos you are just out of your depth. let me introduce you to another word derived from greek one biology. have a look at your dna and an average gc dna and see that you are closer to the terkish dna then anybody else.

my word there are some dead wood in this here forum.

My DNA is the same as yours, cousin, but you don't love me. Why?

[Sotos]

So where is the link with the dictionary definition of patriot that includes the word "CREATE" in it? I checked many english disctionaries and that was not included in any of them... so we already know that the way you define the word is not a "universally accepted dictionary definition" because if it was it would be in ALL major dictionaries. The fact is that the Scotish voted AGAINST Independance... their "country" is merely symbolic, and apart from some sports its powers are no more than those of a federal state or even a district (if it was a real country then there wouldn't be any need for a referendum yesterday). I am Cypriot so I am using the original Greek meaning of the word, and that is how we use the term TODAY... not just " thousands of years ago". It is obvious that the Greek definition of the word is much more clear. On the other hand you claim that the English word means something and then you are unable to produce a link to even a single dictionary that supports your claim... there is no such kind of confusion in the case of Greek.

[Sotos]

Actually a dictionary definition in English that matches closer to what you describe is separetist: "an advocate of independence or autonomy for a part of a political unit (as a nation)" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/separatist

[erolz66]

So where is the link with the dictionary definition of patriot that includes the word "CREATE" in it? I checked many english disctionaries and that was not included in any of them... so we already know that the way you define the word is not a "universally accepted dictionary definition" because if it was it would be in ALL major dictionaries. The fact is that the Scotish voted AGAINST Independance... their "country" is merely symbolic, and apart from some sports its powers are no more than those of a federal state or even a district (if it was a real country then there wouldn't be any need for a referendum yesterday). I am Cypriot so I am using the original Greek meaning of the word, and that is how we use the term TODAY... not just " thousands of years ago". It is obvious that the Greek definition of the word is much more clear. On the other hand you claim that the English word means something and then you are unable to produce a link to even a single dictionary that supports your claim... there is no such kind of confusion in the case of Greek.

Sotos are you REALLY going to persist with this stupidity and in the process keep reemphasising the absurd lengths you will go to in order to not have to accept the statement ( in ENGLISH) that "'someone seeking to unite Cyprus with Greece can only be a Greek patriot and can not, by definition, be a Cypriot patriot" ?

Even if you were right in regards to the (absurd) assertion that because the dictionary definitions of the word patriot talk only of a person relationship to country , this can only mean a country that already exists and cannot possibly mean one that is yet to exist because they do not explicitly state this or the word 'create' in those definitions, and you are not right as I will show below, even then all you are left with is absurd anomalies. Anomalies like, if you were right, American Patriots, like Thomas Jefferson and others could not be accurate described as American patriots until AFTER they had established American as a spate country. Anomalies like, if you were right, then the assertion that pre 1960 "someone seeking to unite Cyprus with Greece can only be a Greek patriot and can not, by definition, be a Cypriot patriot" would STILL be true, all be it for different reasons.

But the fact is that the dictionary definitions do not explicitly talk of a person relationship to a country, be that an existing one or one that currently does not exist but is desired to exist by the subject is because it is totally unnecessary to do so. To demonstrate this lets say the definition of a 'gourmand' is 'someone who loves fine food'. We do not need to make the definition 'someone who loves fine food, be that actual food that exists or a concept of fine food that is yet to exist', to know that someone who dreams every night of fine food yet to be created is compatible with the label gourmand. Nor do we have to be geniuses to know what is considered 'fine food' is a matter of interpretation that vary from region to region but that the word gourmand ALWAYS defines a persons relationship to 'food' and not say cows or sheep. Thus it is with patriot. The definition of the word is about the relationship of the subject to a COUNTRY. What the nature of that relationship is that makes one a patriot or not is a matter of interpretation and varies from region to region depending on etc etc but it is ALWAYS about the subjects relationship to a country, be it a real currently existing one or a conceptual notion, an idea and ideal, of one the subject seeks and wants to exist. That is its definition

As to the Scotland thing independence is irrelevant to the word patriot and thus not mentioned in any dictionary definition of the word. Independence IS mention in the word 'nationalist' which IS defined as "a person who advocates political independence for a country.". Thus you could not say someone who voted for continued union of Scotland with the rest of the UK is a Scottish nationalist. And no one does say this. What you CAN say is someone who voted for continuing union of Scotland as a COUNTRY with the other countries of the UK is a 'Scottish patriot' because the word patriot applies to country and despite you propaganda needs, Scotland was, is and remains in or out of the UK a country, and thus people do and have said this.

Sotos keep showing how clearly you would rather try and argue that 'black is white' than have to accept the simple defined truth of the statement ""someone seeking to unite Cyprus with Greece can only be a Greek patriot and can not, by definition, be a Cypriot patriot" - for in doing so you just keep highlighting the thing that is really interesting , which is WHY you need to do so.

[Jerry]

What would Cyprus Forum be without its pedants - very quiet I suppose.