Cyprus-Forum.com

[Mustiejodu]

Both you and helim or what ever his name is nikita . Your both taking info only from a Christian point of view . This book looks to be from a English source . Why don't you ask your source if Sultan Selims favourite wine was the Cyprus wine ? Where is your source coming from . Are they taken from actual letters sent to and from la la Mustafa pasha to Sultan Selim 11 . The only form of communication at the time was written scrolls with the royal seal which gave a more realistic picture of what happened . Are you taking your source from a Christian perspective . Look at the news today . How was Iraq made to look like the bad guys in Europe and the Americans and British the good guys but we all know it was all lies .

[Nikitas]

OK, let us accept that Cyprus was attacked because of wine. What did Malta produce that the Sultan coveted that he wasted a few thousand troops there too.

Interesting that no one has so far contradicted the absence of any creative act of the Ottomans in their possessions. Is there any grand university, civil engineering project, road building, etc left by the Ottomans anywhere? What is the contribution of the Ottoman empire that ranks it along the Arabs, the British, the Romans?

You guys should go to Rhodos, and see what the Italians, also foreign occupiers, built in the thirty years they had the island compared to the 400 the Ottomans squeezed taxes from the locals. Even in areas of moslem populations, like Albania, Bosnia there is no substantial legacy of the Ottomans. Which makes you wonder what positive attractions Davut is offering when promoting "neo-ottomanism".

The book Halil linked cites plenty of ottoman records, hardly a Christian perspective. These ottoman sources report destruction of vineyards by the invaders, strange if wine had been the cause for the invasion, and details the FORCED transfer of people to Cyprus, again a strange act if wine was the major reason for the conquest.

The historical process is much more than individual quirks.

[Mustiejodu]

Are you for real ? Under which sultan was Malta taken . Some history lessons for you . After ( kanuni ) suleyman the magnificant it was pretty much downwards for the Ottoman Empire . No further expansion occurred after his death apart from when cyprus was taken under suleymans son selim the drunk who was not even present at the time. Unlike his father he never took a step outside his palace in istanbul . His father on the other hand played a very active part in the crusades on 16 occasions and died on the last one (illness) . Are you blind to all ottoman buildings and bridges in Bosnia ? Yes I agree with your comments about cyprus and I keep telling you the reason . I will make it more clear to you so you understand . After this great leader suleyman the sultans after him were only involved in the administration in istanbul, the rest of the empire was run by the pashas and also the harem had a great influence on the feud amongst who got to the throne . Let's not forget most influential mothers of the sultans were concubines from Christian background . Some were greek. Pashas were left to their demises to increase taxes and inflict hardship on the conquered people . After this period there was no cultural influence just harsh tax and corruption hence why there is very little ottoman influence in cyprus . We thank ataturk for saving us as the ottomans lost everything hence why the royal family were exiled .

[Mustiejodu]

OK, let us accept that Cyprus was attacked because of wine. What did Malta produce that the Sultan coveted that he wasted a few thousand troops there too.

Interesting that no one has so far contradicted the absence of any creative act of the Ottomans in their possessions. Is there any grand university, civil engineering project, road building, etc left by the Ottomans anywhere? What is the contribution of the Ottoman empire that ranks it along the Arabs, the British, the Romans?

You guys should go to Rhodos, and see what the Italians, also foreign occupiers, built in the thirty years they had the island compared to the 400 the Ottomans squeezed taxes from the locals. Even in areas of moslem populations, like Albania, Bosnia there is no substantial legacy of the Ottomans. Which makes you wonder what positive attractions Davut is offering when promoting "neo-ottomanism".

The book Halil linked cites plenty of ottoman records, hardly a Christian perspective. These ottoman sources report destruction of vineyards by the invaders, strange if wine had been the cause for the invasion, and details the FORCED transfer of people to Cyprus, again a strange act if wine was the major reason for the conquest.

The historical process is much more than individual quirks.

You tell me why cyprus was only taken after suleyman the magnificant died ? During suleymans longest ever reign he had conquered North Africa surrounding cyprus but does not conquer cyprus . Why ? The empire is at its most powerfull under suleyman but no attempt or purpose to take cyprus . Why ? I did mention piracy.

[Mustiejodu]

Nikita I have tested your knowledge of the ottomans and it is very western indeed . What you need to remember is there there is over 100 thousand unopened archives kept in vaults of the ottoman scripts . The turkish government after the independence did not want any caliphate influence hence it was left to the western demise to formulate this biased historical view of the Ottoman Empire however as you know the present government has this dream of the ottoman era hence slowly these true historical archives are now being released to the public . The true factually documented history of the Ottoman Empire will be re-written into history . Watch that space . The truth is Selim 11 could not possibly be a drunk and at the same time build one of the most beautiful mosques in edirne from the taxes levied on the people of cyprus . I was giving you the western perspective and you did not dispute this false description of the sultan because it was negative .

[Mustiejodu]

Read Osmans dream by Caroline Finkel . Then we can talk .untill then don't Make up Walt disney stories

[Nikitas]

I did not say Malta was taken, it was a failed attempt to take it that cost thousands of troops, under Lala Pasha if I recall rightly.

[Lordo]

now this is very interesting here is a document that mentions what the 1.5 million was paid for. no mention of land exchange in maras, just a grant it seems.

APPENDIX U
FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO TURKISH COMMUNITY
Draft Exchange of Letters between the Governor and Dr. Kutchuk and
Mr. Denktash
A.-Text of Letter from the Governor to Dr. Kutchuk and Mr. Denktash
I have the honour to inform you that the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland have decided to make available the sum of £1,500,000 by way of grant to the Turkish community in Cyprus to be used for education, the development of Vakf property and cultural and other like purposes which fall within the competence of the Turkish Communal Chamber as it is to be established under the Constitution of the Republic of Cyprus.
2. Accordingly, I propose the following arrangements:-
(a) The Government of the United Kingdom shall pay the sum of £1 million, for the purposes mentioned in paragraph 1 above, to the Turkish Communal Chamber, in instalments as required for purposes which have been approved by that Chamber for immediate execution during the two years following the date of Independence for Cyprus.
(b) In order to meet urgent requirements of the Turkish community, for the purposes set out in the Schedule hereto, before the establishment of the Turkish Communal Chamber the Government of the United Kingdom shall pay the sum of £500,000 into a joint account in your name with the Turkish Bank of Nicosia on condition that:-
(i) any payments out of that account shall be made only for the purposes mentioned in this sub¬paragraph and with the consent of the High Council of Evcaf and upon the signature of both of you and
(ii) upon the establishment of the Turkish Communal Chamber, you will render to that Chamber an account of any expenditure made from the said sum of £500,000 and will pay over the balance, if any, to that Chamber for the purposes mentioned in paragraph I above.
(c) The Turkish Communal Chamber shall arrange for the Government of the United Kingdom in due course to be provided with audited statements of all transactions relating to the sums paid to you and to that Chamber in accordance with the above provisions of this paragraph.
3. I also have to request your confirmation that the Turkish community, including the High Council of Evcaf, have no financial claims against the Government of the United Kingdom, or against the Government of the Colony of Cyprus, arising or purporting to arise out of or in connexion with either the administration of Cyprus or the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus or otherwise, and that no such claims will be made hereafter by or on behalf of the Turkish community. It is understood that this paragraph shall not affect the provisions, on its entry into force, of the Treaty concerning the Establishment of the Republic of Cyprus initialled at Nicosia on the of July, 1960, and in particular the provisions of Annex E thereto.
4. If you would kindly confirm your acceptance of the arrangements set out in paragraph 2 of this letter and give me the confirmation requested in paragraph 3, I will arrange for a joint account to be opened in your name with the Turkish Bank of Nicosia and for the sum of £500,000 to be paid into that account.
B.-Text of Letter from Dr. Kutchuk and Mr. Denktash
We acknowledge receipt of your letter of (dated) which reads as folio,
[Text as A]
2. We have the honour to confirm on behalf of the Turkish community our acceptance of the arrangements set out in paragraph 2 and to give you the confirmation requested in paragraph 3 of your letter.
Draft Exchange of Letters on Grant to Turkish Community
SCHEDULE
(l) General repairs to and renovation of Vakf buildings which suffered damage owing to rent control.
(2) Towards the cost of a new school building for Turkish Secondary Girls School in Nicosia.
(3) Towards the development of Vakf property at Kyrenia Gate. Nicosia.
(4) Construction of a new building in Nicosia for Turkish Communal Chamber, with necessary offices.
(5) Advance for the building of new Secondary School at Kyrenia.
(6) Towards the cost of development of certain land for a hotel at Kyrenia.
(7) Towards the cost of development of Vakf property at Limassol.
(8) Towards the cost of building on Vakf property at Larnaca modern tourist facilities.
(9) Towards the cost of completion of development of old Turkish Cemetery at Famagusta.
(10) Towards the cost of development of Tekke garden at Nicosia or other similar property.