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GC Leader storms out of meeting.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: GC Leader storms out of meeting.

Postby Kikapu » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:31 am

Geoff1131 wrote:Thanks, that answers some of my questions, but creates others. For ease of thought lets say your mother was one of four so she has 25% share in the property and the other three had 75% between them until they accepted the exchange property in the north as compensation. So now the authorities in the north own the 75% so who will decide what the property is worth whenever the situation arises, so that your mother can cash in, as it were her 25%? If it is the north's administration i would think they will put a low valuation on the property so as to take full control at the best price. If your mother puts too high a valuation on the property then i would expect the owner with the 75% stake to challenge the valuation. Otherwise you would have a reverse situation of the " Double Dipping " that you obviously feel to be unfair?


Once again, whichever system the regime in the north used to get the TCs to sign over their properties in the south to receive either stolen GC properties in the north or get some cash towards it means absolutely nothing to the RoC. As far as they are concerned, it was a scam what the north did, hence the fact, ALL the TCs who own property in the south are still the legal owners, and if and when there is a settlement, it is then the land ownership will be sorted out, but it is going to be very very messy for the TCs since if there were only 4 siblings as heirs to their parents property using your example back in 1974, now there may be 15-20 if any or all of the siblings are now dead. Their children are now the new heirs to their grandparent’s property. Good luck trying to get them all to agree on anything.

Now, to answer your question regarding the north who may be holding onto 75% of my mother's family property as "owners" and then they set a very low valuation on the other 25%, then my mother will offer to buy out the 75% at the same valuation set by the north. Simple really. But that won't even come to play I don't think, because none of my mother's siblings and herself are listed as the owners of their land in the south. All of the family property is still under the name of their parents at the RoC land registry office and not the name of the regime in the north. Now, unless the courts in the RoC through probate groups all the land and gets a valuation for the whole thing and then either the siblings can offer to buy each others equal share, or sell the whole thing and receive equal share each, or each piece of property is divided equally to each sibling, in another words, each piece of property would have 4 equal share owners, which is the worst of all other options.

There are many TCs in the situation where they got points but they never used them towards any stolen GC properties, nor did they sell them. You cannot tell these TCs that they no longer have ownership of their property in the south just because they received point in the north in some kind of illegal Ponzi scheme. The points are useless unless they are used for something. That's why the regime in the north would prosecute any TC who may have gotten points towards their property in the south and then used those points to “exchange” or cashed them in, and then they also went to claim their property in the south, because the regime in the north knows too well, that these TCs are still the legal owners of their property in the south, which is why they want to discourage the TCs going after their properties in the south. Naturally, the RoC has also made it hard for the TCs to get their properties back, but that is a separate issue to discuss at another time.
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Re: GC Leader storms out of meeting.

Postby Geoff1131 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:11 am

Again Kikapu thanks for your reply. It does seem that the property issue is a bag of worms. In the event of a solution do you think that the ROC would prosecute any TC's that used these ' points ' to obtain land in the north especially if the land in the north previously belonged to a GC as this could be considered an illegal act? And in your view is there any TC land in the ROC that could be viewed in the same light?
Sorry for all these questions but i am trying to get to grips with the situation to understand the difficulty that both sides have with the property issue.
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Re: GC Leader storms out of meeting.

Postby Kikapu » Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:35 am

Geoff1131 wrote:Again Kikapu thanks for your reply. It does seem that the property issue is a bag of worms. In the event of a solution do you think that the ROC would prosecute any TC's that used these ' points ' to obtain land in the north especially if the land in the north previously belonged to a GC as this could be considered an illegal act? And in your view is there any TC land in the ROC that could be viewed in the same light?
Sorry for all these questions but i am trying to get to grips with the situation to understand the difficulty that both sides have with the property issue.


I can only give you general information as I understand them and also my own personal views and opinions.

No, I don't think the RoC will prosecute any TCs who has fallen prey to the Ponzi scheme in the north created by the regime there for the TCs to relinquish their properties in the south to obtain points in the north, to be used against gaining "ownership" of stolen GCs properties in the north if there should be a settlement. Most of the point’s transactions on the stolen GCs properties were where the TCs were already living in for many years. At the same time, the RoC can prevent TCs today from getting their properties in the south if any TCs have taken "ownership" of any stolen GCs properties in the north. Call it receiving stolen goods if you will, which is a crime in any country. But as long as the RoC does not recognize the Ponzi scheme the north's regime created, then you can also say that no RoC laws are broken with the point system, maybe? After all, the TCs were the victims of the regime in the north with such a Ponzi scheme, so I don't think the RoC will prosecute the victims twice. Where the RoC's laws are broken, is when stolen GCs properties are bought and sold illegally because these properties do not belong to those making such transactions and receiving monetary value against such transactions. I'm sure if there is a settlement, all these criminals who practiced in buying & selling in stolen GC properties will be given immunity just for the sake of starting a peaceful settlement.

TC properties in the south are also used by GCs as needed for shelter and commerce, but the difference between the north and the south is, that the RoC did not give or sell to others as the new owners of TCs properties, basically what they did in the north. However, what the RoC has done, and legally I may add, is if any TC property was needed to build roads, schools, airports or any other public projects, the RoC simple bought those properties at the market price at the time of purchase by using "Eminent Domain Act" (the right of a government or its agent to expropriate private property for public use, with payment of compensation) and put the funds due to the TC owner in some kind of escrow, to be paid to the TC owner upon a settlement or before if the TC owner meets the requirements. The problem for the TCs is, if their property was expropriated say 30 years ago, what was paid to them back then will be far far less than what that same property is worth today. There will be losers on both sides when it comes to property settlement, no doubt.
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Re: GC Leader storms out of meeting.

Postby Geoff1131 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:39 am

I am beginning to get an understanding of your views. But your last paragraph creates another' bag of worms.' If, as you say TC land in the south was purchased by the ROC under the " Eminent Domain Act " for development of roads, schools etc and the price of that land was set at levels 30 or so years ago. Then surely any land used in the north under the same conditions would have to be priced at the same level? I am not sure that any GC who owned land in the north prior to 1974 would be too pleased to only be compensated at 1974 levels.
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Re: GC Leader storms out of meeting.

Postby Kikapu » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:52 am

Geoff1131 wrote:I am beginning to get an understanding of your views. But your last paragraph creates another' bag of worms.' If, as you say TC land in the south was purchased by the ROC under the " Eminent Domain Act " for development of roads, schools etc and the price of that land was set at levels 30 or so years ago. Then surely any land used in the north under the same conditions would have to be priced at the same level? I am not sure that any GC who owned land in the north prior to 1974 would be too pleased to only be compensated at 1974 levels.


And that's what the Annan Plan tried to do also in 2004, which the GCs rejected it.

The difference is, that the RoC and its government is the ONLY legal entity for the whole island. Illegally occupied north and it's illegal regime which is not recognised by the world cannot use the same laws as the RoC when it comes to "Eminent Domain Act", otherwise, the IPC in the north would only compensate to those GCs who have chosen to be compensated for their stolen properties in the north at 1974 prices. They are not. Granted, they do not get the full valuation of today's prices due to another form of theft inflicted on these GCs by Turkey in trying to get compensation, but the monies they do receive is far more than 1974 prices. You cannot equate the north and the south as being the same when it comes to Eminent Domain Act.
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Re: GC Leader storms out of meeting.

Postby Geoff1131 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:06 pm

Not a good answer i'm afraid. If there is ever going to be a settlement then it must be seen to be fair to both sides, otherwise you are creating a situation again that started this mess in the first place. If both sides cannot come to an agreement over all the issues then maybe the only way is for a formal partition and for each side to get on with living life under their own rules.
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Re: GC Leader storms out of meeting.

Postby Kikapu » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:23 pm

Geoff1131 wrote:Not a good answer i'm afraid. If there is ever going to be a settlement then it must be seen to be fair to both sides, otherwise you are creating a situation again that started this mess in the first place. If both sides cannot come to an agreement over all the issues then maybe the only way is for a formal partition and for each side to get on with living life under their own rules.


So then you are advocating through partition that the GCs will lose 5 times more property than the TCs. How is that fair in your view?

The overall TC property used by the RoC for Eminent Domain Act, and even if you were to apply the same to the north for the use of stolen GCs properties for Eminent Domain Act also, they are very small amount of properties. The overwhelming majority of the properties have not been used by the Eminent Domain act. The better solution is, that everyone gets their properties back where possible if not used for public purposes and let the individuals sell their properties at the market price of the day and set another price for ALL properties used for public purposes, but just using 1974 as a base price for all the properties, you are then creating another unfair punishment on the owners. You will be rewarding the present "owners" who paid very little to these properties, if anything, gain a windfall cash, since then they become in possession of property that is now worth far more than what it did in 1974 and all the thousands of TCs and GCs will only get small change instead. Really, you think that's the way to go?
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Re: GC Leader storms out of meeting.

Postby B25 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:45 pm

Goeff, just what is your connection with Cyprus??
If you are not a TC is disguise then you can only be a carpet bagger since the only people that promote partition are the scum that bought the GC properties and are trying to protect their ill gotten investments.

I don't believe for a moment you give a shit about either GC or TC (unless you are one), but are looking out for your selfish self.

Kiks, have you not detected what this person is yet. Jesuuuus.
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Re: GC Leader storms out of meeting.

Postby Geoff1131 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:51 pm

B25, there is no show without Punch is there????

I am not promoting anything, i wish i could live to see Cyprus as one country again, but i am in my late sixties now and time is running out for me. If an agreement is to be reached by the two sections then real give and take has to be shown on both sides. From what i can see it is the TC's who have tried the most to accommodate a solution and the GC's who will not agree because it means they have to lose something ( in their eyes ) Until both sides go to the negotiations with a real will to end this situation then the situation could go on for another 40 years.
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Re: GC Leader storms out of meeting.

Postby B25 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:07 pm

Geoff1131 wrote:B25, there is no show without Punch is there????

I am not promoting anything, i wish i could live to see Cyprus as one country again, but i am in my late sixties now and time is running out for me. If an agreement is to be reached by the two sections then real give and take has to be shown on both sides. From what i can see it is the TC's who have tried the most to accommodate a solution and the GC's who will not agree because it means they have to lose something ( in their eyes ) Until both sides go to the negotiations with a real will to end this situation then the situation could go on for another 40 years.


I rest my case, carpet bagger.
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