Cyprus-Forum.com

[Sotos]

Patience! Soon we will see the principles on which Turkey's promoted solution to the Kurdish problem is based. From that we will be able to draw valuable inferences. We will see if Kurdish will be an officia llanguage, ie the one spoken in parliament and the courts.

The proportion of territory ceded to the Kurds, along with the degree of autonomy, self rule, veto powers, and all that stuff that we are messing with.

So Erolz, is Turkey a "tyranny of the majority"? Should Turkey be invaded and ethnically cleansed? No matter how you are trying to excuse your crimes the FACT is that in Cyprus we accepted for you minority to have MORE rights than most minorities in the world and NONE of your human or minority rights would be violated in ANY way. We only wanted to change the racist and undemocratic things that Turkey and UK BLACKMAILED and FORCED on us in 1960 and even with those changes your minority would STILL have more powers and rights than those of most other minorities. In Turkey and even in your pseudo state you give close to ZERO to the minorities ... and you come here to give lessons to us about human rights and democracy?

Here is a start for you:
1. Recognize the GENOCIDES you committed against MILLIONS of Christians.
2. Recognize that you oppressed the native people for CENTURIES
3. STOP the CRIMES and ILLEGALITIES you continue to commit TODAY
4. Give to the minorities in Turkey everything that you demand for your own minority

AND THEN come here to preach us. Because as it stands not only you are CRIMINAL but you are also a HYPOCRITE.

[erolz66]

So Erolz, is Turkey a "tyranny of the majority"? Should Turkey be invaded and ethnically cleansed? No matter how you are trying to excuse your crimes the FACT is that in Cyprus we accepted for you minority to have MORE rights than most minorities in the world and NONE of your human or minority rights would be violated in ANY way. We only wanted to change the racist and undemocratic things that Turkey and UK BLACKMAILED and FORCED on us in 1960 and even with those changes your minority would STILL have more powers and rights than those of most other minorities. In Turkey and even in your pseudo state you give close to ZERO to the minorities ... and you come here to give lessons to us about human rights and democracy?

You simply refuse to accept the difference in GC saying to TC, following the end of British Colonial rule 'we will all together rule ourselves as Cypriots and this will be done in the name of a valid expression of the right to self determination of a unitary Cypriot people' and them saying to TC, 'your homeland will be given to Greece, you will be ruled in your own homeland not by Cypriots but from Athens by Greeks and you have no say in this matter at all pr any rights to a say and this will be done in the name of a vaild expression of the right to self determination of a unitary Cypriot people'. You refused to accept this difference then and you refuse to accept it today and whilst you continue to do so the chances of us ever reaching a real lasting solution remains remote. For you any solution short of 'TC must just accept whatever GC tell them to accept, up to and including the giving away of their own homeland and country to a foreign power' is a compromise and that is your problem.

You can bleat on and on all you like about Turkey but I am not Turkish I am Cypriot, I do not seek to define how Cyprus should behave by comparisons with Turkey, as you do.

[boulio]

i wonder in erolz would be saying the same things if the numbers were reveresed?

[Sotos]

You are Cypriot my arse, and I quote what you wrote some days ago "Overall I am around 190 up and that includes my 100 loyalty bet on England to win the WC before the tournament started". Do you even have the Republic of Cyprus citizenship or are you just another carpetbagger? Do you have legal title deeds for the property you are using? Foreign powers were the Turks and the British who occupied Cyprus against the will of the Cypriot people. If for you Greeks are foreigners then why did you came uninvited to an island inhabited by Greeks for thousands of years? Why is it our fault that you are invading thieving scumbags?

You can bleat on and on all you like about Turkey but I am not Turkish I am Cypriot, I do not seek to define how Cyprus should behave by comparisons with Turkey, as you do.

You are not Turkish? Really? So on what attribute do you want to divide land, power and everything else in Cyprus? You demand rights and privileges as Turks, you declare a pseudo state on our lands called "Turkish Republic" and then when we expose your HYPOCRISY you are trying to get away from this by saying you are not Turkish?

[Sotos]

i wonder in erolz would be saying the same things if the numbers were reveresed?

The numbers ARE reversed in Turkey and also in the pseudo sate... so no need to wonder. His hypocrisy couldn't be more obvious! We asked for a normal democracy and fairness so that for example the 18% of TCs wouldn't get 30% of public servant jobs and he comes here to accuse us of "tyranny"!!! when in Turkey Kurds can't even have schooling in their own language, let alone to have Kurdish as an official language or a proportional representation in the government and the public sector! The FACT is that we accepted for TCs to have way more rights than most minorities and WAY WAY WAY more rights than minorities in Turkey... and this CRIMINAL Erolz is trying to present us as the wrongdoers because we wanted to change the clearly RACIST and UNDEMOCRATIC shit they forced on us in 1960!

[repulsewarrior]

sotos, would you live in a Unitary State, where as Cypriots we fly this Flag highest, and where at another level of government, we can choose by where we reside, a Constituency, as an electorate sustaining its distinct identity?

...rather than a "Greek" vs "Turk", what if as Cypriots, we commit to defending each other as Cypriots, without distinction or discrimination? wouldn't this be possible, if along with a Republic, a Greek Constituency exists, like other Cypriot Constituencies, so that as Greeks, as Persons, Greeks (and people who live as Greeks) have the Liberty to express themselves as Greeks, as Greeks demonstrating their Goodwill as a Community, having self-representation, at another level of government, as a National Assembly, within their Territorial Jurisdiction, having an Agenda which may serve them first as a majority, but with respect and recognition of the minorities that live among them; if this were true for all Cypriot Constituencies, could you live with that?

Bicommunal, does not mean tearing the island in two, neither does Bizonal. the debate is flawed, there must be at least three bodies that can be identified, as sets within a Universe, to be "Bi" anything there must be a whole; having parts. frankly, it is not the Republic which should be defending "Greeks", as in Hellenism, Greeks on the other hand, should.

[erolz66]

You are Cypriot my arse, and I quote what you wrote some days ago "Overall I am around 190 up and that includes my 100 loyalty bet on England to win the WC before the tournament started".

I am both Cypriot and British. My father was Cypriot and my mother is British. I am both Cypriot and British, legally, practically, in my own head and heart and in every way in fact. What I am not is Turkish. Not legally, not practically and not in my head or heart either. No one who knows me considers me Turkish, not my family not my friends and not my acquaintances. The ONLY people who consider me Turkish are those like yourself Sotos. Why is that ?

Foreign powers were the Turks and the British who occupied Cyprus against the will of the Cypriot people. If for you Greeks are foreigners then why did you came uninvited to an island inhabited by Greeks for thousands of years? Why is it our fault that you are invading thieving scumbags?

And as ever Sotos we get to the 'core' with you - you are a 'real' Cypriot and I am an invading thieving scumbag. You hatred and prejudice will always shine through with Sotos, you try and talk a good game of respect for human rights and minorities but in the end it always come down to the same with you, ethnic based hatred and prejudice.

Look if in 1959 the TC community was a numerical minority that dominated the economic, social and political life of Cyprus, and we sought to maintain that dominance after the end of British rule despite being a numerical minority, then an argument that we were just an extension and continuation of ottoman colonial rulers and not people for whom Cyprus was validly their homeland, might hold some water. However we were not such and your argument does not hold any water.

You are not Turkish? Really? So on what attribute do you want to divide land, power and everything else in Cyprus? You demand rights and privileges as Turks, you declare a pseudo state on our lands called "Turkish Republic" and then when we expose your HYPOCRISY you are trying to get away from this by saying you are not Turkish?

I have always been totally clear on my personal views on what would constitute an acceptable settlement in Cyprus. I would accept no bi zonality and no requirement for separate consent of the communities with a single exception. That's is when GC 'vote' not as Cypriots but as Greeks, then we get to vote separately equally in our own shared homeland as Cypriots who are not Greek. That is it and even that is too much for you.

[erolz66]

i wonder in erolz would be saying the same things if the numbers were reveresed?

I would like to think so Boulio but who can really know ? I would like to think if I were GC I would be a Bannaniot type of GC or failing that at least a GR type butr as I say who can really know ? So if you were TC Boulio or if the numbers were reversed do you think YOUR views would be the same as they are today ?

[erolz66]

The numbers ARE reversed in Turkey and also in the pseudo sate... so no need to wonder. His hypocrisy couldn't be more obvious! We asked for a normal democracy and fairness so that for example the 18% of TCs wouldn't get 30% of public servant jobs and he comes here to accuse us of "tyranny"!!! when in Turkey Kurds can't even have schooling in their own language, let alone to have Kurdish as an official language or a proportional representation in the government and the public sector! The FACT is that we accepted for TCs to have way more rights than most minorities and WAY WAY WAY more rights than minorities in Turkey... and this CRIMINAL Erolz is trying to present us as the wrongdoers because we wanted to change the clearly RACIST and UNDEMOCRATIC shit they forced on us in 1960!

Turkey, Turkey, Turkey over and over - though ostrich would probably be more suitable given your seeming endless ability to ignore the issue. You did not ask for 'normal democracy' - you sought to a most atypical objective to force our shared homeland to be given over not to us as members of that single place but to a foreign power. That is why the 60's agreements were as they were and it why you sought (and did) unilaterally amend them against all legality.

Just try and imagine for one minute a Cyprus were GC never sought any future for Cyprus and all Cypriots other than to be free and independent. Just think, really think about how events would have gone in the 40,50, 60, 70 and onwards if that had been the case.

ENOSIS , the defining of yourselves as not Cypriots but Greeks who lived in Cyprus and us as some 'other' (but lesser) who also lived their, pursued firstly as 'genuine expression of the will of a unitary Cypriot people' and later via deception, illegality and ethnic based violence is at the HEART of the Cyprus problem. Yes we played out part, we pursued non Cypriot objectives, we committed illegalities and ethnic based violence in our turn. No what you did does not justify or legitimise what happened in 74 (though it DOES explain it and is vital to accept if we are ever to understand d what and why it happened). However as you constantly remind us we were the numerical minority and the truth is nothing we or Turkey could have done could have led us to where we are today if you had never sought enosis and truly been committed to ideals like unity, legality, human rights and respect for minorities. This is what you continue to deny and as long and as far as you do the hope of finding a better future for all Cypriots reduces and recedes.

[boulio]

if you were TC Boulio or if the numbers were reversed do you think YOUR views would be the same as they are today ?

im not a tc you are so what would your views be if the tc were 82% of the population?