Cyprus-Forum.com

[Sotos]

Sums it up really, this pathetic excuse for a person wants to be allowed to shit all over us when ever and how ever he wants....long live the TRNC.

Lol because we wants democratic rights ?

For the Turks democracy is equivalent to shit. When they are the minority they can't accept Majority Rule, when they are the majority they ignore Minority Rights. Probably they have such an issue with democracy because it was invented by Greeks

[boulio]

boulio please keep up thats not what hes saying.

Really what is erol saying vp,because I know what the end conclusion is do you?

[Viewpoint]

Sums it up really, this pathetic excuse for a person wants to be allowed to shit all over us when ever and how ever he wants....long live the TRNC.

Lol because we wants democratic rights ?

For the Turks democracy is equivalent to shit. When they are the minority they can't accept Majority Rule, when they are the majority they ignore Minority Rights. Probably they have such an issue with democracy because it was invented by Greeks

Lets get passed this minority bullshit, we are your partners which you put your signature to and will never be able to erase, once you understand this the rest will fall into place, thats why BBF is being negotiated today.

[Viewpoint]

boulio please keep up thats not what hes saying.

Really what is erol saying vp,because I know what the end conclusion is do you?

Do tell us all, but are you ok with the GCs being given the power to force their will on us without us objecting?

[boulio]

In a federal structure what's left to the central govt will be straight vote what's left to each entity will be a straight vote as well.

[Viewpoint]

In a federal structure what's left to the central govt will be straight vote what's left to each entity will be a straight vote as well.

What will be the balance in the central government?

[erolz66]

What I want is a NORMAL democracy.

You want a 'normal' democracy when the situation historical and now is anything but 'normal' and whilst refusing to even acknowledge that your 'normal' would, presumably just by co incidence, give your community the right to impose its purely communal will over mine in our shared homeland without any restriction or any requirement to have to consider my communities will in our shared homeland. You want a 'normal' democracy , well I want an 'appropriate democracy' and what I want would give my community no other right than to resist imposition on it and ONLY when you choose to act not as individuals regardless of ethnic background but specifically as an ethnic community different to me because of ethnic background.

How can you blame me for wanting what is the NORM??

How can you blame me for wanting what is appropriate to our situation ?

You want something tailor made to suit ONLY YOU and you are trying to force it on us like you forced your rule on us for several centuries.

I want something appropriate for all of us as Cypriots that could realistically allow us to become a fair and just unitary people. I want it having looked our mistakes of the past and tried to learn from them. 30% ratios in civil service jobs - ok too much and I give it up. Generic veto powers - ok too much and I give up. Separate municipalities - ok too much and I give it up. I ask from ONE last remaining atypical but necessary to our situation thing - that you accept that when you act not as individuals regardless of ethnicity in our shared homeland but as an ethnic community different to us, you can not do so without ANY limitation or need to consider our communal wishes as a community that shares Cyprus as a homeland and is different from yours and you STILL refuse to accept such. And the real reason why you , even now, even after all Cyprus has been through refused to give even this one necessary and appropriate thing is nothing to do with 'normal' and everything to do with

Scotland belongs first and above all to its native people just like Cyprus belongs first and above all to its native people.

the fact that you believe you and your community alone should effectively be the only ones to have any say over Cyprus and our community none, because you are the 'real Cypriots' the 'native Cypriots' and we are not. That is what it has always been about for people like you who hold this view. Cyprus belongs to you, it is yours and we have no rights to it at all and you will not accept anything else.

And sometimes you even compare yourselves to a country for fucks sake!! ... giving as an example the relationship between EU countries!!!

No I do not. What I do when you make claims like 'this is how democracy works EVERYWHERE' as if one person one vote is a fundamental sacrosanct and singular means to democracy EVERYWHERE and in all cases and situations, then I point to the democratic EU as an example that totally destroys your claim.

... most importantly you are an ethnic minority created during the last centuries as a result of foreign conquest and colonialism!

What and European Americans are not an ethnic MAJORITY created during the last centuries as a result of foreign conquest and colonialism ? So is it ok as long as during those last centauries you wiped out enough of those there before you to not be a minority ? Is that why we have no right to any effective say in Cyprus as our homeland, where as European Americans do, because the Ottomans did NOT wipe out enough of you for us to be the numerically larger group today ?

Will I ever change your mind Sotos ? No I will not but I will tell you what I think this thread clearly shows, to anyone with any degree of impartiality. It shows, I believe, who, between us, you and me, is REALLY the more 'intransigent' in terms of genuinely seeking a fair and just settlement in Cyprus, other than agreed partition. Who is the one who REALLY refuses to make any compromise at all to their maximal demands. Who is the one who wants to get all and give nothing. That is what I believe this thread shows. Of course you will disagree and start shouting about 'normality' again, as if impartial observers are too stupid to notice the situation is Cyprus was an is anything but 'typical' or 'normal' and too stupid to notice that what you define as 'normal' just happens to grant your side everything and my side nothing. So go ahead.

[erolz66]

Lol because we wants democratic rights ?

Have you even read the thread ? Its not because you want democratic rights, its because you want a singular means to Democracy that effectively means your community even when acting not as individuals regardless of ethnic back ground but as a community solely because of ethnic background has the ability to impose ANYTHING it wants on our community without any restriction or requirement to have to consider our communities wishes at all in our shared homeland, and you refuse to consider ANY other means to democracy, like those used in other places with similarly 'atypical' situations like Belgium to give one example.

[erolz66]

I tell you to stop posting things 50 years ago because you use it to justify the current situation.so anything that happens in cyprus needs the approval of both communities is your argument?

Have you even READ the thread boulio ? I have previously EXPLICITLY said that your refusal to accept that we can have any right as a community to any effective say in the future of our homeland if and when you choose to act not as individuals regardless of ethnic back ground but because of it, does NOT justify what happened to you in 74, does NOT legitimise the current status quo. That is what I have actually said vs what you claim I am saying.

Not only do you pervert what I have actually said, you also ignore Sotos using what the Ottomans did in Cyprus from 1571 to 1878 as justification for any number of things. Do you not feel even an iota of embarrassment at this apparent double standard ?

[erolz66]

For the Turks democracy is equivalent to shit. When they are the minority they can't accept Majority Rule, when they are the majority they ignore Minority Rights.

When all else fails back to calling me a Turk and the notion that I am inherently less that you (less fair, less honesty, less civilized, less whatever) BECAUSE of my ethnic background. You can not help yourself can you Sotos ?

Probably they have such an issue with democracy because it was invented by Greeks

Greeks did not invent democracy, there were societies and cultures using forms of democracy for millennia before Greeks existed. They were one of the first to formally codify limited forms of democracy as a defined political system. Just as they were among some of the first to also recognise and define some of the limits and failings of 'extreme democracy' without any checks or balances, as the quote I gave from the laws of Plato showed and you choose to ignore.