Cyprus-Forum.com

[Sotos]

GR, I am not going to waste my time with your nonsense. The Greeks have a history of 1000s of years and you are a retard for not knowing that. And the fact that the majority of Cypriots are Greek is undisputed. it is even written in the constitution of Cyprus.

[erolz66]

The Turkish people already have their self-determination you idiot! They have it in Turkey where they are the MAJORITY.

I am not Turkish I am Cypriot. Rule from Ankara is as foreign to me as rule from Athens or London. You CHOOSE to not be Cypriot, I do not and you do not get to make that choice for me.

In any case it makes no difference. If as you claim there is no such thing as a Cypriot people and that you exercise your rights to self determination as part of the Greek people, we are STILL a different and separate people from you whether we are part of the Turkish people or some other people and have therefore a separate and equal right to self determination. The ONLY possible way for us to not have a separate right to self determination to you is if we are part of the SAME people and you have explicitly denied the very existence of such a people. Can you still not yet see the extent of your stupidity ?

There is a reason why your leadership NEVER tried to claim enosis was the expression of the right to self determination of the Greek people of Cyprus and ALWAYS sought to claim it was a valid expression of the right to self determination of a unitary Cypriot people. Can you work out why this is Sotos ?

Give to the Greek minority in Turkey EVERYTHING you demand for your Turkish minority in Cyprus and I will gladly accept the deal! NO double standards from us! So yes erolz... note the ALL! Principles should apply universally to ALL ... not to interpret the same thing in different ways as it suits you!

I am not Turkish I am Cypriot.The Greek minority in Turkey were not told they will be ruled not by Turks from Turkey, but by foreigners 800km away from Turkey that have no connection to Turkey and they will have no say in this. Turkey did not say to them, there is no such thing as a Turkish people and a Turkish nation, quite the opposite. In any case your argument even if the situations were comparable, which they are not, is simply that of 'two wrongs make a right' - or our abuses of you rights is excused and justified by Turkeys' abuses of others rights.

[Sotos]

I am not Turkish I am Cypriot. Rule from Ankara is as foreign to me as rule from Athens or London. You CHOOSE to not be Cypriot, I do not and you do not get to make that choice for me.

I am way more Cypriot than you will ever be. You are half English, English is your native language, you were born and grew up abroad ... how can you claim to be more Cypriot from me? Of course I am Cypriot ... but the term "Cypriot" does not refer to an ethnicity!!

I am not Turkish I am Cypriot.The Greek minority in Turkey were not told they will be ruled not by Turks from Turkey, but by foreigners 800km away from Turkey that have no connection to Turkey and they will have no say in this. Turkey did not say to them, there is no such thing as a Turkish people and a Turkish nation, quite the opposite. In any case your argument even if the situations were comparable, which they are not, is simply that of 'two wrongs make a right' - or our abuses of you rights is excused and justified by Turkeys' abuses of others rights.

Are you serious? You made the Greeks of Anatolia a "favor" because they would be ruled by Turks in Ankara instead of Greeks in Athens because there is more distance to Athens? Then why isn't eastern Turkey part of Georgia and Armenia... their capitals are much closer! Of course the examples are not exactly the same... if anything the Greeks of Anatolia should have more rights than the Turks in Cyprus since the Greeks of the western coast of Anatolia were forcefully reduced into a minority by the invading Turks while the Turks in Cyprus are the settlers that the invaders brought and they have never been the majority. And are you seriously saying that what is "right" is to give to every ethnic minority a self-determination right and that this "right" will apply only in Cyprus? If that resolution did give such rights to minorities (it doesn't!) then why not apply it in both Turkey and Cyprus at the same time. That resolution was adopted in 1966 and entered into force in 1976... so it would have applied equally to all minorities... not just to yours!

[Sotos]

I see you edited your post... and you added this:

In any case it makes no difference. If as you claim there is no such thing as a Cypriot people and that you exercise your rights to self determination as part of the Greek people, we are STILL a different and separate people from you whether we are part of the Turkish people or some other people and have therefore a separate and equal right to self determination. The ONLY possible way for us to not have a separate right to self determination to you is if we are part of the SAME people and you have explicitly denied the very existence of such a people. Can you still not yet see the extent of your stupidity ?

There is a reason why your leadership NEVER tried to claim enosis was the expression of the right to self determination of the Greek people of Cyprus and ALWAYS sought to claim it was a valid expression of the right to self determination of a unitary Cypriot people. Can you work out why this is Sotos ?

You are imagining things. When we were asking for our freedom our leadership never said anything about a "unitary Cypriot people". It has always been about the native Cypriot people who are Greek... those who had been oppressed by the British and previously by the Ottomans and who wanted their freedom from foreign oppression. We are part of the Greek people, you are part of the Turkish people because you invaded us and you created a minority on our island in the exact same way as you created minorities in other Greek islands and territories. No difference at all and your minorities don't have any self-determination rights on the territories that the Ottomans had previously occupied. If your minorities would have such right then the Greek minorities in Anatolia would have AT THE VERY LEAST the same rights also.

[erolz66]

Are you serious? You made the Greeks of Anatolia a "favor" because they would be ruled by Turks in Ankara instead of Greeks in Athens because there is more distance to Athens?

My views are totally consistent. One of us here has a consistency problem and it is not me.

Do you remember my saying

Ruling Cyprus together with other Cypriots, whatever they consider themselves is acceptable to me. Being told I will be ruled by foreigners in my own homeland and that I have no right to any say is such a decision is not acceptable to me.

Turkish Greeks ruling Turkey together with other Turks is acceptable to me. Turkish Greeks being told they will be ruled in their own homeland by people that have no connection themselves to that shared homeland and that they will have no say in that decision is not acceptable to me.

My position is 100% consistent. Shall I start to list your glaring inconsistencies Sotos ?

You have no position or defence other than 'Cyprus is Greek, we are the real Cypriots and thus we have a right to impose anything we want on TC and they have no rights to any say what so ever'. This is exactly the kind of view that played such an enormous part in getting us into the mess we are today in Cyprus and your maintenance of it today is a major block to any chances of finding a solution.

[erolz66]

You are imagining things. When we were asking for our freedom our leadership never said anything about a "unitary Cypriot people".

In the closing stages of the (EOKA) struggle, the Cyprus problem had been presented to the world public opinion and to diplomatic circles as a demand of the people of Cyprus to exercise the right of self-determination

[Sotos]

Are you serious? You made the Greeks of Anatolia a "favor" because they would be ruled by Turks in Ankara instead of Greeks in Athens because there is more distance to Athens?

My views are totally consistent. One of us here has a consistency problem and it is not me.

Do you remember my saying

Ruling Cyprus together with other Cypriots, whatever they consider themselves is acceptable to me. Being told I will be ruled by foreigners in my own homeland and that I have no right to any say is such a decision is not acceptable to me.

Turkish Greeks ruling Turkey together with other Turks is acceptable to me. Turkish Greeks being told they will be ruled in their own homeland by people that have no connection themselves to that shared homeland and that they will have say in that decision is not acceptable to me.

My position is 100% consistent. Shall I start to list your glaring inconsistencies Sotos ?

You have no position or defence other than 'Cyprus is Greek, we are the real Cypriots and thus we have a right to impose anything we want on TC and they have no rights to any say what so ever'. This is exactly the kind of view that played such an enormous part in getting us into the mess we are today in Cyprus and your maintenance of it today is a major block to any chances of finding a solution.

Maybe you want to edit this post also before I totally destroy your stupid arguments? I will be back in a some hours!

[Sotos]

Are you serious? You made the Greeks of Anatolia a "favor" because they would be ruled by Turks in Ankara instead of Greeks in Athens because there is more distance to Athens?

My views are totally consistent. One of us here has a consistency problem and it is not me.

Do you remember my saying

Ruling Cyprus together with other Cypriots, whatever they consider themselves is acceptable to me. Being told I will be ruled by foreigners in my own homeland and that I have no right to any say is such a decision is not acceptable to me.

Turkish Greeks ruling Turkey together with other Turks is acceptable to me. Turkish Greeks being told they will be ruled in their own homeland by people that have no connection themselves to that shared homeland and that they will have no say in that decision is not acceptable to me.

My position is 100% consistent. Shall I start to list your glaring inconsistencies Sotos ?

You have no position or defence other than 'Cyprus is Greek, we are the real Cypriots and thus we have a right to impose anything we want on TC and they have no rights to any say what so ever'. This is exactly the kind of view that played such an enormous part in getting us into the mess we are today in Cyprus and your maintenance of it today is a major block to any chances of finding a solution.

Were the Greeks of Constantinople, Smyrna, Trapezounta etc ASKED if they wanted their homelands to be part of some Turkish country ruled in Ankara? Were they asked if they want to be what you called "Turkish Greeks"?? NO. So where is the consistency compared to what you demand for your minority in Cyprus? If what happened to the Greek minority in Anatolia is acceptable to you, then if you were consistent enosis would be equally acceptable and you would be a "Greek Turk" ruling Greece together with the Greeks (in the same degree as "Turkish Greeks" rule Turkey).

And by the way... in Cyprus we asked for a REFERENDUM so you would have a PROPORTIONAL say.... much more than what the Turks allowed to the Greek minority. But no ... you wanted to FORCE your own way AGAIN undemocratically!

[Nikitas]

The national origin is a minor issue, the primary one is if we want to be independent or not.

The GC community solved that dilemma in 1974 when it saw what the "motherland" had in store for them. The TCs are still laboring under the impression that they will vanish without their "motherland's" support and military presence on the island, which naturally is goes against any notion of independence. Independent nations do not host foreign armies.

I feel sure that the crushing majority of Cypriots would opt for independence if it was put to a vote. GCs do not want to live in a mini version of Greece and the same goes for the TCs and other minorities that have links to other nations, ie Armenians, Maronites, regarding their respective "motherlands". What remains is to express this in a referendum and then go on to settlement talks. When all concerned, especially our three guarantor powers see the results of a referendum that excludes partition, Enosis and opts for independence, they will realise what gives. Such a referendum will have a much stronger effect than any "high level talks" as to setting a future goal since it will be the ultimate legitimisation of the goal that negotiations will aim for.

But as usual we tend to do things ass backwards in Cyprus.

[erolz66]

Were the Greeks of Constantinople, Smyrna, Trapezounta etc ASKED if they wanted their homelands to be part of some Turkish country ruled in Ankara? Were they asked if they want to be what you called "Turkish Greeks"?? NO. So where is the consistency compared to what you demand for your minority in Cyprus? If what happened to the Greek minority in Anatolia is acceptable to you, then if you were consistent enosis would be equally acceptable and you would be a "Greek Turk" ruling Greece together with the Greeks (in the same degree as "Turkish Greeks" rule Turkey).

Forget that all I talk about and want to talk about is Cyprus and all you seem able to talk about is Turkey. Forget that the formation of the Turkish nation and state, unlike the Cypriot nation and state, occurred before any international legal recognition of and framework for the right to self determination of peoples. Forget that, unlike Cyprus, the Turkish nation was not formed by the ENDING of colonial rule, but by an indigenous resistance to the attempted armed imposition OF colonial rule by several nations, Greece included. Forget that the status of Greeks in Turkey was formalised by international treaty agreed and signed by Greece. Forget all these fundamental differences and you are STILL left with

can you not understand the difference between 'have a nation ruled together by all of us that live and have our roots in this place event though we have different historic ethnic backgrounds' and 'you will have forced on you in your own homeland rule by people who do NOT live in your homeland and do not have roots there and you have no right to any say in this decision'.