Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

very simple zan, you don't have to get all vp on me. if there are two levels of Government it is not complicated, one defines Cypriots as Individuals, having Individual Rights, the other defines Cypriots by where they choose to live, as Persons.

[zan]

very simple zan, you don't have to get all vp on me. if there are two levels of Government it is not complicated, one defines Cypriots as Individuals, having Individual Rights, the other defines Cypriots by where they choose to live, as Persons.

Ok RW. If you are not interested in explaining to someone who doesn't quite get it then what's the point

[repulsewarrior]

sorry zan if you are offended, you know the smarm rubs off on all of us, I thought since you give it you take it.

but seriously, do you understand that Sovereignty does not have to be the question when it comes to Territorial Jurisdictions, but that the existence of a Greek Constituency must. and that if there are two levels of government, consider, since Sovereignty is not a Constituent issue, a Constituency can be made of components. if the Green Line must remain, there is no reason why enclaves (north and south) cannot exist as well. as ugly the history of their use by Mankind, it is not their only purpose. in Cyprus, they will fulfill the principal desire of all Cypriots, Free Movement, Free Association, Free Expression, they will offer us the opportunity, by choosing where we live to be closer to our tax-payments, we will have the security of a Federal Government, and a National Assembly, be it Greek or Turkish, it will be obligated to demonstrate a capacity to serve all Cypriots, and island-wide, with enclaves, whether in Turkish or Greek first, it won't be so easy for either of them to close the gates so to speak, nor is it in their interest, they may compete regionally, even if Cyprus is a small island, but that adds to the variety of choices we have, (think about it) either as Individuals, or Persons.

...I hope that I don't need to remind you, that for Cyprus itself, to thrive it must expect to support the demands of many millions sooner than we think, and that is politically too, likely with a completely different demographic, regardless. a modern Republic should be colourless, powerful because it can defend the Universal Principals we have expressed as Individual Rights, and it is here where the opportunity rests for Cypriots to express what is best for Cyprus as a whole. Constituencies in that context secure the Liberty of having, distinct identities, and in so doing, identifying what respect and recognition is offered as a majority to the minorities living amongst them. the island can be divided in any manner, geographically, if we remain as Cypriots willing to defend each other, as Cypriots.

[zan]

sorry zan if you are offended, you know the smarm rubs off on all of us, I thought since you give it you take it.

but seriously, do you understand that Sovereignty does not have to be the question when it comes to Territorial Jurisdictions, but that the existence of a Greek Constituency must. and that if there are two levels of government, consider, since Sovereignty is not a Constituent issue, a Constituency can be made of components. if the Green Line must remain, there is no reason why enclaves (north and south) cannot exist as well. as ugly the history of their use by Mankind, it is not their only purpose. in Cyprus, they will fulfill the principal desire of all Cypriots, Free Movement, Free Association, Free Expression, they will offer us the opportunity, by choosing where we live to be closer to our tax-payments, we will have the security of a Federal Government, and a National Assembly, be it Greek or Turkish, it will be obligated to demonstrate a capacity to serve all Cypriots, and island-wide, with enclaves, whether in Turkish or Greek first, it won't be so easy for either of them to close the gates so to speak, nor is it in their interest, they may compete regionally, even if Cyprus is a small island, but that adds to the variety of choices we have, (think about it) either as Individuals, or Persons.

...I hope that I don't need to remind you, that for Cyprus itself, to thrive it must expect to support the demands of many millions sooner than we think, and that is politically too, likely with a completely different demographic, regardless. a modern Republic should be colourless, powerful because it can defend the Universal Principals we have expressed as Individual Rights, and it is here where the opportunity rests for Cypriots to express what is best for Cyprus as a whole. Constituencies in that context secure the Liberty of having, distinct identities, and in so doing, identifying what respect and recognition is offered as a majority to the minorities living amongst them. the island can be divided in any manner, geographically, if we remain as Cypriots willing to defend each other, as Cypriots.

Not offended RW….Just asking questions and you got offended and now I have lost interest. Forget the details….One canton/enclave in the zone of another is too many. I think I gave you the analogy of "Indians" surrounding the wagon train a long while ago……Nothing has changed. It is a dangerous idea from start to finish. LIke Gypsy camps but with all sides thinking the other the Gypsy and not wanting to go anywhere near them and blaming them for all their woes….ie...Bloody thieves. Taking our bloody jobs….etc….At least with one single border it will be easier to police.

[Nikitas]

"At least with one single border it will be easier to police." assuming the layout of the border allows easy policing, which is what the Annan border did NOT provide. Instead of straight-edging it convoluted it and made it longer than the present demarcation line.

[repulsewarrior]

...no "border" is best, wouldn't you agree? splitting the island in two, in my mind, is the worst.

with many territories making a zone, if you will, no mono-clonal society could grow within it because regions island-wide must be served by its Authority, and the competition for attention will add very much to the debate such a Constituency would have in making its decision. Free Movement, Association, and Expression is far more difficult to contain, if such an array of electors existed.

...I give more credit to the People, in general, zan. there will always be the cynics, there will always be amongst them a body which takes great pleasure in identifying anyone but themselves as a cause for the misery, any misery, which may exist; there are Romantics, Idealists, and Realists, too. Cyprus makes sense. beyond that, the Turks, Greeks, Maronites, Armenians, and Romes, are not just Persons. As Individuals, they will make the decisions that count most to them, if they are given this opportunity, as Human beings, to express themselves, whether it is as Cypriots, and under a Rule of Law which is Universal, or as Persons having as a Liberty such representation as a Constituency (read: majority, (where they demonstrate a respect and recognition of the minorities living amongst them)).

...consider, Criminal Law, is Federal Law, (which come from a federal Government). Crime investigation may include many levels of policing. I ask, is Justice served, I suggest it is the best way to apply such resources, closer to the tax payment put toward them by taxpayers, as voters.