Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Presidential elections are coming in Turkey. The main two opposition parties have announced their candidate - and that is a huge surprise, because they have chosen somebody with strong islamist credentials. The AKP say they will announce their candidate on 1 July, but it is expected to be Erdoğan, which means he has to step down as party leader and prime-minister. Big changes are coming. In my opinion Turkey will survive, either under a putinesque Erdoğan dictatorship, or else, if he loses, this will usher in a spirit of reconciliation between secularists and Islamists.

I suppose its like Cameron trying to outkip UKIP

It is unfortunately so. I can't believe that Ataturk's party is supporting Emeleddin İhsanoğlu, but there you have it.

Whats your views on him?

[zan]

Presidential elections are coming in Turkey. The main two opposition parties have announced their candidate - and that is a huge surprise, because they have chosen somebody with strong islamist credentials. The AKP say they will announce their candidate on 1 July, but it is expected to be Erdoğan, which means he has to step down as party leader and prime-minister. Big changes are coming. In my opinion Turkey will survive, either under a putinesque Erdoğan dictatorship, or else, if he loses, this will usher in a spirit of reconciliation between secularists and Islamists.

I suppose its like Cameron trying to outkip UKIP

It is unfortunately so. I can't believe that Ataturk's party is supporting Emeleddin İhsanoğlu, but there you have it.

He said last week that he supports the basic principles set out by Ataturk and he is just as strong on the sciences, so a good candidate in my eyes.

[Tim Drayton]

Presidential elections are coming in Turkey. The main two opposition parties have announced their candidate - and that is a huge surprise, because they have chosen somebody with strong islamist credentials. The AKP say they will announce their candidate on 1 July, but it is expected to be Erdoğan, which means he has to step down as party leader and prime-minister. Big changes are coming. In my opinion Turkey will survive, either under a putinesque Erdoğan dictatorship, or else, if he loses, this will usher in a spirit of reconciliation between secularists and Islamists.

I suppose its like Cameron trying to outkip UKIP

It is unfortunately so. I can't believe that Ataturk's party is supporting Emeleddin İhsanoğlu, but there you have it.

He said last week that he supports the basic principles set out by Ataturk and he is just as strong on the sciences, so a good candidate in my eyes.

Glad to see he has your approval. I tend to agree with the view expressed by renowned columnist Can Dündar in the following recent piece of his:

http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/koseyazisi ... yragi.html

He's a brilliant tactical candidate, that's for sure - a man with a past as an Islamic scholar from Yozgat, one of the most fanatically Islamist cities in the middle of Anatolia. The idea is to strike at Erdoğan's main support base among conservative Sunnis in central Anatolia, Erdoğan himself being a Black Sea man. The consolation is that, unless there is a change to the constitution to move to a presidential system - the aim if Erdoğan wins - the presidency in Turkey is pretty symbolic and so it may not matter too much.

[zan]

Presidential elections are coming in Turkey. The main two opposition parties have announced their candidate - and that is a huge surprise, because they have chosen somebody with strong islamist credentials. The AKP say they will announce their candidate on 1 July, but it is expected to be Erdoğan, which means he has to step down as party leader and prime-minister. Big changes are coming. In my opinion Turkey will survive, either under a putinesque Erdoğan dictatorship, or else, if he loses, this will usher in a spirit of reconciliation between secularists and Islamists.

I suppose its like Cameron trying to outkip UKIP

It is unfortunately so. I can't believe that Ataturk's party is supporting Emeleddin İhsanoğlu, but there you have it.

He said last week that he supports the basic principles set out by Ataturk and he is just as strong on the sciences, so a good candidate in my eyes.

Glad to see he has your approval. I tend to agree with the view expressed by renowned columnist Can Dündar in the following recent piece of his:

http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/koseyazisi ... yragi.html

He's a brilliant tactical candidate, that's for sure - a man with a past as an Islamic scholar from Yozgat, one of the most fanatically Islamist cities in the middle of Anatolia. The idea is to strike at Erdoğan's main support base among conservative Sunnis in central Anatolia, Erdoğan himself being a Black Sea man. The consolation is that, unless there is a change to the constitution to move to a presidential system - the aim if Erdoğan wins - the presidency in Turkey is pretty symbolic and so it may not matter too much.

Sorry Tim, my Turkish isn't good enough to comment. Is yours that good?

[Tim Drayton]

There's a small taster for you with my own on-the-hoof translation:

“... ülkede hâkim olan milliyetçi- muhafazakâr iklime teslim olunması... Erdoğan’ın karşısına, onun fikir coğrafyasından bir adayın konulması... İhsanoğlu, tekseslilikte boğulmaya çalışılan bir toplum için beyaz teslim bayrağıdır.”

“...surrendering to the nationalist-conservative atmosphere dominating the nation ... putting up a candidate against Erdoğan from the latter’s own ideological geography ... İhsanoğlu is the white flag of surrender for a society whose pluralism it is wished to stifle.”

(tekseslilikte boğulmaya çalışılan bir toplum - is tricky and I wonder if anybody can come up with something better. I am pushed for time just now)

[Tim Drayton]

On the other hand, there was another great piece in Cumhuriyet a few days ago by an academic, whose name escapes me just now, arguing that opponents of İhsanoğlu do not seem to realise the disaster that awaits if Erdoğan becomes president and just how vital it is to field a candidate against him who can gain the support of various ideological groupings.

Anyhow, this is the Cyprus forum, and I doubt that the survival of secularism in Turkey is a great concern of many people here, so let's leave it.

[zan]

There's a small taster for you with my own on-the-hoof translation:

“... ülkede hâkim olan milliyetçi- muhafazakâr iklime teslim olunması... Erdoğan’ın karşısına, onun fikir coğrafyasından bir adayın konulması... İhsanoğlu, tekseslilikte boğulmaya çalışılan bir toplum için beyaz teslim bayrağıdır.”

“...surrendering to the nationalist-conservative atmosphere dominating the nation ... putting up a candidate against Erdoğan from the latter’s own ideological geography ... İhsanoğlu is the white flag of surrender for a society whose pluralism it is wished to stifle.”

(tekseslilikte boğulmaya çalışılan bir toplum - is tricky and I wonder if anybody can come up with something better. I am pushed for time just now)

Thanks Tim. About as good as google translate no offence. Seriously though. I got it. No need for any more. Just read a bit on the Alevi Turks that is sort of saying the same thing. If I got it right then they are saying he is not speaking for everyone and it is surrender to Erdogan because he is not different enough. Am I right?

[Tim Drayton]

There's a small taster for you with my own on-the-hoof translation:

“... ülkede hâkim olan milliyetçi- muhafazakâr iklime teslim olunması... Erdoğan’ın karşısına, onun fikir coğrafyasından bir adayın konulması... İhsanoğlu, tekseslilikte boğulmaya çalışılan bir toplum için beyaz teslim bayrağıdır.”

“...surrendering to the nationalist-conservative atmosphere dominating the nation ... putting up a candidate against Erdoğan from the latter’s own ideological geography ... İhsanoğlu is the white flag of surrender for a society whose pluralism it is wished to stifle.”

(tekseslilikte boğulmaya çalışılan bir toplum - is tricky and I wonder if anybody can come up with something better. I am pushed for time just now)

Thanks Tim. About as good as google translate no offence. Seriously though. I got it. No need for any more. Just read a bit on the Alevi Turks that is sort of saying the same thing. If I got it right then they are saying he is not speaking for everyone and it is surrender to Erdogan because he is not different enough. Am I right?

Dündar also says that you may defeat Erdoğan with this candidate, but if you do so with somebody who shares Erdoğan's ideology, then Erdoğan ends up the winner. I also think the Cemaat is a factor in all of this. I know an important Alevi leader (sorry his name also escapes me just now - very busy) has called on Alevis not to vote for him and a survey has shown that 60-70% of CHP supporters say they won't vote for him. What a mess! On the other hand, if it comes to a run-off between the two, are people from such groups really going to let Erdoğan get in?

[Tim Drayton]

On the other hand, there was another great piece in Cumhuriyet a few days ago by an academic, whose name escapes me just now, arguing that opponents of İhsanoğlu do not seem to realise the disaster that awaits if Erdoğan becomes president and just how vital it is to field a candidate against him who can gain the support of various ideological groupings.

Anyhow, this is the Cyprus forum, and I doubt that the survival of secularism in Turkey is a great concern of many people here, so let's leave it.

Just for the record, this is the other article I mentioned above, by Prof. Dr. Nurşen Mazıcı:

http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/haber/turk ... cikis.html

Side by side with the Can Dündar article they represent the two opposing sides of the debate about İhsanoğlu's candidacy among Turkish secularists.

[zan]

On the other hand, there was another great piece in Cumhuriyet a few days ago by an academic, whose name escapes me just now, arguing that opponents of İhsanoğlu do not seem to realise the disaster that awaits if Erdoğan becomes president and just how vital it is to field a candidate against him who can gain the support of various ideological groupings.

Anyhow, this is the Cyprus forum, and I doubt that the survival of secularism in Turkey is a great concern of many people here, so let's leave it.

Thanks again Tim. The forumers are more interested in the footy than anything else anyway