Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

...I think it was Socrates that said, Democracy works as far as one man's voice can be heard.

watching the world as it is today, I thought what significance a Metropolitan centre has to the region around it. In Iraq, in Iran, as in the Ukraine, Syria, as well as Turkey, Israel, and Cyprus, the list actually goes on and on, where a "Capital" has been created from unrest; they lack something, which allows for these Citizens to see the worth in defending each other as Individuals, and as Persons seek instead, the security, of "their" neighbourhoods, and "their" neighbours.

...I ask myself, is it a natural trend, to refine our civil behaviour close to home, and closer to home, so to speak, to look outward from the ground you are standing on, and if so, does that make the notion of Universal Principals that much stronger? are we moving toward what was its start (democracy), full circle, (and beyond, what with the Information Age), what were regions who could sustain themselves, beyond which, by Custom defining Nations, and in that, creating a sense that, we are a Human Race (as Individuals), having greater responsibilities, as Citizens of the World. Nations, and States exist, as well as Nation-States, what of States where there are Nations within?

...living Bicommunally, that is to say as Individuals, and as Persons, is not such a Modern idea it seems, in all these cases though, there is a value in recognising that, if anything, the State should represent something more than just a voice for a Nation because it represents an overwhelming majority as such. Bizonal, in this sense, is not so hard to define as well.

...is the debate framed wrongly, because having identified each other as Constituencies (with specific needs), they take the role of adversaries. in all these cases, it would seem to me, that if a Federal Government existed, superior to them, it would not have to pick sides, but it could act as a referee. note, it requires a self representation of constituencies, as well as a Government that represents Universal Principals; the balance is not one Constituency against another, it is the Constituencies, their 'Personal' Rights, that balance against the State, that which defends our Individual Rights.

...any comments?

[Oceanside50]

Governments exist(develop) naturally. Forcing a form of government on citizens will not work. In 1960 Cyprus was forced to accept an unnatural system, it didn't work for a number of reasons. Forcing a bbf on Cyprus won't work in any form. Having a central government that supposedly can solve all problems won't work. A constituent state has enough powers to resist the central government...and it would be arguably legal in some form..

[zan]

Somewhere in the Amazonian jungle, two tribes, isolated from the rest of the world with only their daily lives to decide over with their elders making those decisions, maybe? With 30,000 children suffering from mental health neglected in the UK and left out of the news whilst the world goes crazy over 200 women kidnapped in Africa(not that that is not important) I believe no system should have " one flag flying over the other". It is the will and the intent that can make a system work. Any system. Even a dictatorship.

[Kikapu]

Somewhere in the Amazonian jungle, two tribes, isolated from the rest of the world with only their daily lives to decide over with their elders making those decisions, maybe? With 30,000 children suffering from mental health neglected in the UK and left out of the news whilst the world goes crazy over 200 women kidnapped in Africa(not that that is not important) I believe no system should have " one flag flying over the other". It is the will and the intent that can make a system work. Any system. Even a dictatorship.

Dictatorship is never the will of the people, but always forced on the people!

Conversely, Democracy is always the will of the people and not forced on the people.

The fact that the north does not want Democracy for a United Cyprus is another matter, maybe because to Muslims Dictatorship is more acceptable than Democracy, but since the whole of the island is in the Democratic EU, the TC Muslims in Cyprus need to make a choice individually, to become part of Democratic EU Cyprus or become part of Dictatorship Turkey!

[zan]

Somewhere in the Amazonian jungle, two tribes, isolated from the rest of the world with only their daily lives to decide over with their elders making those decisions, maybe? With 30,000 children suffering from mental health neglected in the UK and left out of the news whilst the world goes crazy over 200 women kidnapped in Africa(not that that is not important) I believe no system should have " one flag flying over the other". It is the will and the intent that can make a system work. Any system. Even a dictatorship.

Dictatorship is never the will of the people, but always forced on the people!

Conversely, Democracy is always the will of the people and not forced on the people.

The fact that the north does not want Democracy for a United Cyprus is another matter, maybe because to Muslims Dictatorship is more acceptable than Democracy, but since the whole of the island is in the Democratic EU, the TC Muslims in Cyprus need to make a choice individually, to become part of Democratic EU Cyprus or become part of Dictatorship Turkey!

If you didn't have an agenda then maybe you would at least try to understand. The will and intent of the dictator is what I meant. Past kings of England have either a good or bad reputation as to how they treated the people. We are talking in general terms here. It was an example and nothing else. It gave you a platform to talk crap though.

[Kikapu]

Somewhere in the Amazonian jungle, two tribes, isolated from the rest of the world with only their daily lives to decide over with their elders making those decisions, maybe? With 30,000 children suffering from mental health neglected in the UK and left out of the news whilst the world goes crazy over 200 women kidnapped in Africa(not that that is not important) I believe no system should have " one flag flying over the other". It is the will and the intent that can make a system work. Any system. Even a dictatorship.

Dictatorship is never the will of the people, but always forced on the people!

Conversely, Democracy is always the will of the people and not forced on the people.

The fact that the north does not want Democracy for a United Cyprus is another matter, maybe because to Muslims Dictatorship is more acceptable than Democracy, but since the whole of the island is in the Democratic EU, the TC Muslims in Cyprus need to make a choice individually, to become part of Democratic EU Cyprus or become part of Dictatorship Turkey!

If you didn't have an agenda then maybe you would at least try to understand. The will and intent of the dictator is what I meant. Past kings of England have either a good or bad reputation as to how they treated the people. We are talking in general terms here. It was an example and nothing else. It gave you a platform to talk crap though.

And just what is that agenda of mine, Zan?

If you mean to have True Federation, True Democracy, Human Rights, International Law and the EU Principles for Cyprus, then I'm quilty as charged!

[zan]

Ok Kiks. You've said it often enough times so it must be true. I'm in. What now? GR has told you to sod off along with a few others. So what now?

[Kikapu]

Ok Kiks. You've said it often enough times so it must be true. I'm in. What now? GR has told you to sod off along with a few others. So what now?

You did not answer the question, Zan.

[zan]

Ok Kiks. You've said it often enough times so it must be true. I'm in. What now? GR has told you to sod off along with a few others. So what now?

You did not answer the question, Zan.

Look Kiks, I don't want to get too personal and deep down inside I feel for you. You are lost and it's going to take you some time. At the end of the day it's been your choice but just because you leave one group to join another doesn't mean you have to see the former as an enemy. There is nothing like a reformed smoker to tell you not to smoke. Their evangelism goes way beyond any non smoker. It is more to convince themselves not to smoke again and it's hard to watch. Try to find some peace and yourself. It not your fault.

I know you are going to come back fighting but I understand. I understand.

[Kikapu]

Ok Kiks. You've said it often enough times so it must be true. I'm in. What now? GR has told you to sod off along with a few others. So what now?

You did not answer the question, Zan.

Look Kiks, I don't want to get too personal and deep down inside I feel for you. You are lost and it's going to take you some time. At the end of the day it's been your choice but just because you leave one group to join another doesn't mean you have to see the former as an enemy. There is nothing like a reformed smoker to tell you not to smoke. Their evangelism goes way beyond any non smoker. It is more to convince themselves not to smoke again and it's hard to watch. Try to find some peace and yourself. It not your fault.

I know you are going to come back fighting but I understand. I understand.

How can I not, Zan!

Wtf are you talking about, Zan. I have always been a Turkish Cypriot and will always remain a Turkish Cypriot. Do I have to like anyone, including Turkish Cypriots, even family members who support an Apartheid system for my country of Cyprus? Is this what you mean by me "leaving one group and joining another group", a group that supports a Free Democratic Cyprus under the EU umbrella instead of Racist Fascistic Apartheid system? Is this the kind of group you want to support, Zan? Really? Because if it is, then YES, we are in different groups politically, but not enemies as Cypriots. I will fight my corner as hard as possible to support a Democratic Cyprus for ALL Cypriots while you can fight your corner and support Racist Fascistic Apartheid system for Cyprus. For someone who was raised in the West like yourself, Zan, you have learned nothing about a Free Democratic system. That to me is just as difficult to understand as it is for you supporting a Racist fascistic Apartheid system for your own birth country. You may not want to get personal with me, even though you want to and do so most of the time, but let me get personal with you and say this in your face, shame on you Zan for what you support for your own birth country of Cyprus and shame on you for supporting other Racist Fascists in Cyprus!