Cyprus-Forum.com

[boulio]

No they would not MrH THAT why they were permanent derogations which would have become primary EU Law when cyprus ascede to the EU.IF you keep saying it ove and over dosent mean its true.What about turkish troops in your above statement or did it say in annan 5 they would leave?

[zan]

There is no " true" federal model. There is a model that is accepted and then amended as the situation demands in the lifetime of a state or republic or whatever you want to call it. Given the history of Cyprus, we are trying to make these amendments before the state is formed in order to make it more secure and less vulnerable to what Makarios did in 1963. It can only be viewed as suspicious if obvious loopholes are left in. The latest from our chief negotiator is that we have come to a point where all chapters CAN be negotiated and agreed. There seems to be no reason why we cannot reach an agreement........ That is if the "RoC" are genuine.

[boulio]

ofcourse there is zan but what they are tc want is a confederation not a federation.

[zan]

ofcourse there is zan but what they are tc want is a confederation not a federation.

If there were Boulio then there would be no need for parlement or congress or any other constitution. It would be set in stone and it's laws and by laws also. All you would need is policing. Sounds a bit Big Brother to me.

[boulio]

no clue what your talking about

[zan]

Can your " true" federation be changed at all if the two or more states decide to do so Boulio?

[boulio]

in a federation laws are delelgated to the states and then whatever is not is left to the federal govt..In A strong federation however the laws of the states cannot suppersed the laws of the federal govt.as is in the USA.THE WEAKER THE FEDRAL govt the more it statrs looking like a confederation.

[Lordo]

bbf is a federation not confederation. no matter which system you use, you will not be allowed to dominate tcs. tcs will gave 50/50 vote at the federal level. comprihendo reh gumbaro gavole enna mas bovgalede mavroyeriom naminoon.

[zan]

in a federation laws are delelgated to the states and then whatever is not is left to the federal govt..In A strong federation however the laws of the states cannot suppersed the laws of the federal govt.as is in the USA.THE WEAKER THE FEDRAL govt the more it statrs looking like a confederation.

So there are variations. In the lifetime of this federation can it move from a weak to strong federation or visa versa. Can the federation become separate states if all are in agreement?

[MrH]

by boulio » Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:07 pm

No they would not MrH THAT why they were permanent derogations which would have become primary EU Law when cyprus ascede to the EU.IF you keep saying it ove and over dosent mean its true.What about turkish troops in your above statement or did it say in annan 5 they would leave?

"Primary EU Law", are you sure about that Boulio. Look, I am challenging you on that. There is No way that it would have been EU Primary Law unless the core principals of the EU constitution and treaty were all voted on by all existing EU member states - and that would have been impossible for the likes of Belgium for instance. Look back on the archives of Mr Denktas (who used to be a Barristar-at-law himself from Lincoln Inn London) stating his reasons against voting on the Annan Plan. Please consult with a Constitutional Lawyer Boulio as you will no doubt be pleasantly surprised on how it would literally be impossible to sustain those types of Derogations as mentioned in the Annan Plan in a European Court of Law. Do not just trust my word on this, seek some professional advise and I assure you that you will walk away with a completely different perspective. Look at it this way, if you should sign a loose Confederal based untied Cyprus plan, under EU Law, and as part of the EU, you would be able to pick yourself up and settle in the European Union's abided by "Turkish Cypriot State", become a citizen of that federated state and then democratically vote for the MP that your wish to win in its next general and local elections. And, there is nothing that would stop you as an EU member citizen. Believe me Boulio, I know what I am talking about here. Can you imagine one of the Cantons in Belgium for instances telling you, a Greek Cypriot from another EU member country/or federal state, that you will never have any settlement, or voting rights ever in their particular Canton? It's crazy to believe that a Cyprus Confederal agreement (seeing that's what you wish to call it) would ever be able to apply restrictions to any of the EU member citizens in the long term. Read up of EU primary law as there are people at universities and Inns of Law studying the very Subject whom is/are able to settle any of your fears on the matter. EU Primary Law is statute, non-negotiable under the principals of the very democratic freedoms of all of the EU's citizens - and they are very serious about that.