Cyprus-Forum.com

[Robin Hood]

Robin Hood,

What do you think? is Paphitis in that 90+% of people?

No he is smarter than that .....he just needs to step back and look at the whole picture?

[Maximus]

Well he is saying that I am talking out of my arse.

Listen to what is coming out of his arse.

The big powers today prefer to explore new economic markets and everything is conquered from the board rooms of New York, Hong Kong, Tokyo and Berlin.

The craziness of the West paying its own lapdogs to destabilize the Ukrainian Authorities and help Russia in the meantime.

I really can't see the West instigating anything and helping Russia to annex a big chunk of the country.

Business is business my dear friend. Yes I would offer a 19 million bribe if my company was to win a multi Billion Dollar Submarine contract. Wouldn't you? If not, why not? You wouldn't make a good CEO if you are not willing to play the game and look after the interests of your business.

And sorry but i do not see any evidence of any bribes. You really do need to provide evidence.

We are as corrupt as all hell,

What you have shown Max is the level of corruption of high Officials in the Greek government.

There are literally dozens of "non compliant" leaders around the world.

Here you go again about Jackels. What is that anyway? Is it an animal?

NOoooooo, violent people that will create havoc in the country and make non compliant leaders comply and take your bribes. You call them lapdogs...

At the end of the day, the key objective is to restructure the country and Banking system,

Yes, to control and exploit it.

Actually, no i am not going round in circles. It is you that is coming up with wild fantasies. I am just telling it the way it is without the nonsense.

You are...

There is no excuse for utter stupidity!

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis;

My apologies mate.

No apologies needed ..... most threads tend to drift, the more replies the greater the interest and the more likely things will go off the topic.

I believe Russia has (destabilised Ukraine) in order to intervene and annex Crimea.

The situation in Kiev caught Putin with HIS pants down. What was a popular uprising went from that to a coup within days. Don’t forget that Putin was no great fan of Yanukovich and I doubt he gave a hoot whether he dealt with him or somebody else. IMO he was obviously not immediately aware of the US involvement in the coup or at least took it as a conspiracy theory.

The Kiev coup was the installation of an unelected government by a foreign power. They immediately put into motion an anti-Russian agenda and this suited the US.(It is all on record.) It was only after this event that Putin woke up and realised the threat this fascist government was to Sevastopol and the Russian majority in Crimea. Without doubt he gave assistance to the Crimean people to have their referendum. (I consider that to be ‘self determination’ by the overwhelming majority)

No doubt he disregarded the terms of his agreement with the previous Kiev government regarding using his forces to snuff out any violence before it had a chance to erupt at the obvious response of the thugs now in the Kiev driving seat. The result of the success of Putin’s strategic victory in Crimea I think gave other Russian majority area's the hope of avoiding being subjugated by a fascist regime and the problem escalated.

Before the coup, the US threatened Yanukovitch of serious consequences if he used force/violence to curb the uprising. There was initially little violence until the US supported Svobada and Right Sector rose up and with the backing of the US created a new Ukraine government. The US now is supporting the violent repression of the Eastern Ukraine and it has been Putin that has continually called for dialogue but this has not been supported by the US.

Consider an hypothesis? If Bahrain with just about the biggest US naval base outside the US, had a popular uprising, the US would not give a damn if somebody else ran the country but, if suddenly the uprising turned into a coup, an anti-USA communist inspired party took control and it turned out that Russia was behind these parties ..... do you really think the US would react any differently than they way Putin did to protect his interests?

The US has also been very good to the vast majority of Nations and been a very big Stabilizing force, and it will even offer its allies with Security if required.

This is the crux ........... security against what? It is the oldest trick in the book! Create fear and then offer protection in return for consideration. That is how the mafia works. Since 9/11 the Americans have given up most of the protection of the Constitution and The Bill of Rights to receive in return protection against terrorism by their Government. Only today on RT a report has been published that identifies 94% of so called arrests by the FBI supposedly to prevent a terrorist act, as being initiated, planned and instigated by the FBI and then the FBI moving in to arrest the patsy perpetrator. It is called entrapment!

The FBI pick up these stupid Muslim patsies on some radical web site, encourage them to take action, give them a plan, supply the explosives/guns and then arrest them on the ‘job site’ and declare another victory for the War on Terror.
The US spends more than the rest of the world combined on the military to defend itself from imaginary threats. They do this by spreading all over the world with their bases, the result is they create even more radical idiots to sign up for Jihad to rid themselves of the' Yankee invader'. They are creating the very thing they are protecting the American people against.

Yes I do believe the US Government runs the country far better than most and in most cases they do a fairly good job but they are not perfect. I certainly have more faith in their Governments than the Governments of Greece and Cyprus so go figure.

I think that is a well implanted illusion! They certainly look after the top 1% and even more the top 0.01% but not the American people. They have the biggest prison population per capita by far of any country in the world including China. Whilst the official unemployment figure is around 6.8%, if you use the same criteria to determine that percentage as was used in the 1980’s the figure is nearer 24%. In the last decade for every job created in the US, 75 people have gone onto Food Stamps.

From what I read from informed and credible sources, the American Dream has gone down the pan. So, the only good job they have achieved is to make the extremely rich even more extremely rich. The average American is many more times as likely to die from food poisoning, road accidents, getting shot by the Police or the DHS, than they are from an act of terrorism.

My issue here RH is that the Americans are always blamed for every single scenario that comes to fruition, from Coups to economic collapse when in reality we only have ourselves to blame and the US has had very little to do with any of it.

I am afraid that the stupid and ill informed will always be exploited and will suffer as a result. The US is in the driving seat from the banking/financial and corporate world and way out in front when it comes to military involvement anywhere, so if they want to run the World they have to accept that they are responsible when things go wrong. (I mean .... just look at what is boiling up in Iraq! Al-Qaida were not in Iraq at all until GWB/TB got rid of Saddam. Talking of Tony Blair where is he when you need him? )

All politicians are inherently corrupt. If you are not corrupt then it is very unlikely you will ever reach a position of political power. In the US if you want to be anybody you support AIPAC, if you don’t and present an apparent threat you are demonised and destroyed or die in some mysterious road accident. I am afraid the US gets blamed because in the main, at a later date it all comes out that they DID have their fingers in the pie, even though they always deny it fervently at the time but you don’t often see it promulgated in the controlled western main stream media.

Again it is all available if you take the time and trouble to ferret it all out ............... it is depressing sometimes but you do eventually come to the inevitable conclusion that this is a sh*t world!

[Maximus]

My issue here RH is that the Americans are always blamed for every single scenario that comes to fruition, from Coups to economic collapse when in reality we only have ourselves to blame and the US has had very little to do with any of it.

I am afraid that the stupid and ill informed will always be exploited and will suffer as a result. The US is in the driving seat from the banking/financial and corporate world and way out in front when it comes to military involvement anywhere, so if they want to run the World they have to accept that they are responsible when things go wrong. (I mean .... just look at what is boiling up in Iraq! Al-Qaida were not in Iraq at all until GWB/TB got rid of Saddam. Talking of Tony Blair where is he when you need him? )

Was there any evidence for Iraq?

The key objective is to restructure the country and control the banking and financial system.

So a CEO, like Paphitis, comes along and wants to take care of business and offers bribes to high officials in return for BIG contracts so his company can grow., He wants to make more money and influence more people with his brand and crush the local competition. His products are top quality built real cheap in communist states but he has difficulty bidding high enough.

Then a smart ass comes along, like John Perkins and says to Paphitis, listen, there are literally dozens of non compliant leaders around the world. if they do not take your bribes, we can send in some lapdogs to create havoc, kill some of their people and put pressure on them to comply. We can use Hollywood to make up some propoganda, to distract, confuse and put fear in the local people to remove him. It ill be convincing. We can demonize him, make him out to be a tyrant, a mad man and then invade on the pretense that he has weapons of mass destruction or is trying to build a nuclear bomb. Our people will support this if it is a threat to our national security and interests.

If this does not persuade him to take your bribes, then we can invade and hang him and put someone there that will take your bribes Paphitis, plus, there will be plenty of contracts to go around to rebuild the place for many companies..

The Greeks took your bribes, why don't they?

Send in the lapdogs to persuade them.

[Robin Hood]

Maximus:

Well he (Paphitis) is saying that I am talking out of my arse. Listen to what is coming out of his arse.

Have you ever asked yourself why someone who is obviously intelligent, as no doubt you are, can come to so different a conclusion to yourself when your decisions are based on the same obvious evidence that says otherwise?

People that go into business do so for one reason ..... to make money. So what Paphitis is saying is from the viewpoint of someone in business and he applies this to political and diplomatic situations. I will take a guess that you have never been in business for yourself but, like me, you have worked for others all your life? Our perception would naturally be different because we see it in the context of an ideal and just world, as opposed to a global business plan.

In today’s world you need to be rich to be in politics ..... (I am afraid Robin Hood would have a tough time of it today!) We therefore have a political elite that thinks on the lines that a businessman would. They need to exploit the situation for personal gain and are prepared to lie, cheat and steal to achieve that end. You have only to look at what goes on in the UK Parliament, which is a fairly open organisation, to see how the quest for personal gain corrupts. Politicians are elected to serve the people, that supposedly is democracy but how do you change attitudes driven by the desire for personal gain, to those of a desire to work as an elected politician in the interests of others without personal gain?

In super politics it gets even worse because once you are on the level of Obama, Kerry, Cameron, Hollande etc. you have gone beyond the point of being driven by financial gain because you have more than you need anyway. These people then become driven by the need for power over others, including countries and regimes, the financial gain is purely incidental, the principal is the same but on a much more dangerous level. They now put themselves above the Law and will lie, cheat and steal as they always have done ...... but the goal is different. That goal is absolute power and that is in the hands of a very few ultra rich people/families.

They now manipulate globally, whether that is on the political/diplomatic stage, the banking sector or in multinational corporations. The end justifies the means?

Take a step back and apply this to Ukraine and you will see why you and I are at odds with Paphitis. The original uprising was no doubt the result of idealism to make things better by attacking a corrupt (and wealthy) President. The people rallied behind Klytchko who was an ‘ordinary’ person, not a rich oligarch. But hidden within those ranks were a few people who were working for others with a different agenda. The US wanted Ukraine to be a part of NATO so that they could surround Russia on its western flank, like they have surrounded Iran with over 40 US Military bases within half an hour of the centre of Iran and as they are attempting to do with China. This required a regime change!

When Klytchko got up to the level of forcing Yanukovitch to negotiate and got concessions, those under the influence of the US, who had been hiding in dark corners, came out and took control. They rejected the negotiated deal, in spite of Klytchko pleading with the people to accept it as a starting point. Svoboda/Right Sector with covert US support, needed to convince the idealists to carry on the revolution and, as has now been pretty well proven, they got hired guns (snipers) and started killing demonstrators and also the police. The blame for this false flag was laid at the feet of Yanukovitch which was deliberately intended to raise the level of the demonstrations to one of violent resistance toward the President and the Government.

It worked exactly as planned but those that instigated and planned it were not those now in power but a foreign government. We saw the same US Senators shaking hands with the coup installed leaders of Ukraine as we saw in Syria shaking hands and giving assistance to the Al-Qaida backed rebels. The goal in both cases was the overthrow of an elected President/Government and the installation of a US compliant one. The reasons for the situation in Syria are multiple and complex but Ukraine is simply pay back for Putin, who the US and its Allies have demonised all down the line ..... without any tangible evidence to support its accusations. The US simply could not allow Russia to spread its influence within Europe and Asia. The US needs absolute control for their plan to have power over all energy and other resources, to work and they do it one country at a time.

It was ironic that just a week ago Obama/Cameron et al were all praising the D-Day landings as the turning point of WWII that led to the destruction of the German Nazi war machine in Europe. But here are the same people now putting those very same Nazi oriented political organisations into power in Ukraine. The problem is that the western media didn’t feel this was something the people needed to know.

The people that actually defeated the Germans were the Russians. By the time of D-Day the Germans were already defeated under the constant onslaught of the Russians who lost 27m people doing it and of those, 11-12m were military. Had it not been for the Russians, D-Day would have been a disaster and the Germans would have driven the US and the UK back into the sea. Why is this true? ..... because most of the crack German divisions and their armour were on the Eastern front fighting the Russians.

The REAL reason for the D-Day landings was to prevent the Russians from taking over most of Europe which they would have done had the US/UK not landed troops on D-Day, right down to the borders of Spain. So the D-Day decision was for political ends, not to defeat the Nazi’s, they were already a failed and defeated army.

Things are never as they seem .......... we tend to believe to readily what the politicians want us to believe.

[Maximus]

I am not saying that Paphitis is not intelligent, we are both talking out of our arses.

You are providing a lot of food for thought and I thought that presenting the conspiracy would help underpin a thesis behind what goes on in most of the conflicts around the world. I have my own thoughts about most of what you are saying and understand what you are saying, most people would say they are wild fantasies. here is a wild fantasy, that Hilter and the Nazis were created and financed so they could rise to power to create war, which could be exploited by arms dealers, construction companies and bankers. or Afganistan and controlling the opium fields to profit from black money which could be used to finance lapdogs and Jackels, such as in the Ukraine or in Syria.

or, how about the thought of Mugabe being bribed and feeding him and his hierarchy with weapons and cake at the expense of exploiting his human capital and the countries wealth.

The reality of war - All war is deception. Where is the law? like what is happening in Cyprus or Palestine. The results are an occupation and exploitation of people and resources.

Ukraine

It could be a deception because its the same CEO's (Prime ministers & Presidents) taking care of business.

Where can you see it going?

[Paphitis]

I am not saying that Paphitis is not intelligent, we are both talking out of our arses.

You are providing a lot of food for thought and I thought that presenting the conspiracy would help underpin a thesis behind what goes on in most of the conflicts around the world. I have my own thoughts about most of what you are saying and understand what you are saying, most people would say they are wild fantasies. here is a wild fantasy, that Hilter and the Nazis were created and financed so they could rise to power to create war, which could be exploited by arms dealers, construction companies and bankers. or Afganistan and controlling the opium fields to profit from black money which could be used to finance lapdogs and Jackels, such as in the Ukraine or in Syria.

or, how about the thought of Mugabe being bribed and feeding him and his hierarchy with weapons and cake at the expense of exploiting his human capital and the countries wealth.

The reality of war - All war is deception. This has nothing to do with the law, like what is happening in Cyprus or Palestine. The results are an occupation and exploitation of people and resources.

Ukraine

It could be a deception because its the same CEO's (Prime ministers & Presidents) taking care of business.

Where can you see it going?

Actually, I think you're talking out of your arse. You're intelligent but you don't have a lot to offer on how things actually work in this world and you meander dangerously too close to conspiracy theory territory. You're opinions are tainted somewhat, and cultural. Too often, Cypriots are on the anti US bandwagon but do they understand why. Can they comprehend the Cyprus problem fully and actually be self critical? Very few do.

RH comes with valid points, but I am at odds with a lot. His strategic analysis of NATO is quite reasonable and logical and yes the US has its agenda and strategic plans for Ukraine and that does involve NATO membership and also I might add the European Missile Defence Shield. There are other factors.

It still does not change the fact that Ukraine must remain intact and that Russia has no right to annex any part of it.

At the moment, the US is just standing by and watching developments and giving Ukraine a lot of political and diplomatic support. It's not about to attack Russia any time soon, or go to war over it. It's not the only one. You will find that the decisions of the UN General assembly are almost unanimous and one of the biggest supporters of the Ukraine there is in fact the Republic of Cyprus!

[Maximus]

So tell me how things actually work in this world.

I am not on the Anti US bandwagon. Why dont you say the same for Robin Hood?

I do not disagree with retaining Ukraine's sovereign integrity.

[Paphitis]

So tell me how things actually work in this world.

I am not on the Anti US bandwagon. Why dont you say the same for Robin Hood?

I do not disagree with retaining Ukraine's sovereign integrity.

Read the post above, again and it should be obvious to you. Especially the bit about the RoC being the strongest backer of Ukraine in the General Assembly.

[Maximus]

So tell me how things actually work in this world.

I am not on the Anti US bandwagon. Why dont you say the same for Robin Hood?

I do not disagree with retaining Ukraine's sovereign integrity.

Read the post above, again and it should be obvious to you. Especially the bit about the RoC being the strongest backer of Ukraine in the General Assembly.

My Dear friend, you are challenging my understanding of how things actually work in this world. Why dont you tell me how it actually works.