Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

again, I would like to remind everyone that the coup failed because the coupist did not have the support of the overwhelming population even if they are/were Greek.

That is bollocks RW. The idea that coups succeed if they have the support of the population and fail if they do not is clearly bollocks if one just looks at history around the world. There are countless coups that succeed without the support of the population as there are those that fail which do have such support.

their aspirations, eoka b, cannot be given, as an excuse to dismiss the desire of Cypriots to live peacefully, or to tar them as the worst kind of people with only malice to offer in seeking their own happiness. what is true, is that unless we recognise that as Cypriots, we need to defend each other, we are accessories to the vandals who with great care, tear us apart to suit themselves.

No one is saying that the actions of the GC coupists is the brush by which all GC must be tarred. What I am saying is the idea that these eoka b coupists were somehow only wrong or bad or evil when in eoka B but not before and where somehow separate from eoka, even though they were the same people pursuing the same goal with the same means is just bollocks. They were brutal thugs all too ready and willing to use illegal violence against their fellow Cypriots to achieve their political aim of enosis (as some on our side were too in the pursuit of taksim) in 55 in 65 and in 74. They were brutal thugs that killed their own exactly for advocating that 'we need to defend each other'. It is this denial that they were other than this that I object too. They were Cypriots and they did NOT 'desire to live peacefully' and they did have malice and they were in the highest levels of the GC leadership, in 55, 65 and 74 and that is true.

[erolz66]

They were both foreign-serving treasonous scum!

I do not disagree with you in any fundamental way on this point. I would point out that if you had been expressing such views in 58 or 59 then the chances are high you would have been murdered by such GC foreign-serving scum for doing so.

In fact your people are still scum because they continue their treasonous games to this day!

You think there are not GC still today who believe that Cyprus is Greek ? Do you read this forum ?

[Get Real!]

You think there are not GC still today who believe that Cyprus is Greek ? Do you read this forum ?

Sure, but today they're far reduced and segregated in the form of ELAM and such.

[erolz66]

You think there are not GC still today who believe that Cyprus is Greek ? Do you read this forum ?

Sure, but today they're far reduced and segregated in the form of ELAM and such.

I guess where we differ is (if I may put words into your mouth) is you think there are more on 'our' side because of our ethnicity where as I think there are more on our side because of the different position we are in. We do not have the luxury of 'recognition', we only sustain at all as a separate entity because of Turkey in just about every way and yet still there are significant numbers on 'our' side that say Turkey go home. I think if we were in the position you are then the numbers on our side that would say 'Cyprus is Turkish' would not be that different from those on yours that say its Greek.

[repulsewarrior]

...oh yes, the coup was a success, at least that is how you look at things; you call that, history?

Here’s a coup d’état success checklist for you Repulse:

1. Take control of the National Guard
2. Depose legitimate government.
3. Detain, torture, kill, and/or remove the opposition.
4. Take over all government buildings.
5. Take over the mass media (TV/Radio/Newspapers)
6. Announce yourself country-wide and lay down the new law.


Now tell us in which of the above criteria the 1974 coup failed…

...I would think, from the coupist's standpoint they failed, simply put.

...results must count for something.

...it was not the Turkish Army that put them down, it was their own momentum that brought their coup to an end; they were not even in essence defeated, because they did not remain in power long enough, how does that amount to any success? and yet you deny the failure due to lack of support, in this case, that may well be true, because they did not retain power, nor were they able to defend their power, without it.

@erolz, the same people you say, perhaps they were in eoka, eoka was not in them. if it were, they would not have expected success without the People behind them.

[Pyrpolizer]

Actually the Sampson , Yiorkatzis and other groups had no reason to even be activated IF your own side was not building armaments en mass and rapidly from 1960-1962.

I am sorry but that is bullshit. I am not disputing our side was preparing for inter communal fighting in this period as yours was but to make out that the likes of Sampson would not have resorted to the use of illegal violence and terror to gain their political goals post 60 if TC had not been arming themselves is obviously bullshit in light of the subsequent coup in 74. The continuity of people , goals and means that runs from eoka all the way through to eoka b is to me indisputable fact. For me the 'interesting' aspect of this is not if it is true or not but the degree to which some GC will try and convince themselves and others that it is not.

And it is not the GC side that had a Military General from Turkey in each and every villages preparing god knows what.

A GENERAL in every village ? Really ? You do not think that is a bit of an exaggeration ? How many Greek national troops were illegally in Cyprus by 67 ? 15,000 ? 20,000 ?

Or you think your side was acting legally and the rest were not LOL.

Where do I ever say or argue in this thread (or anywhere else) that our side was only acting legally ? The fact is no where. It is easy to counter my arguments when you simply make up what my arguments are from nothing. My argument is that there is a continuity of people, goals and means than runs from eoka all way through to eoka b. That this seems to be in some dispute is in itself as remarkable as it is patently true.

Like I said if you want to draw similarities or even continuity of people, goals and means and methods between the Eoka 55-59 the paramilitary groups of the 60s and Eoka B you can do that with TMT and all subsequent forms upto what you call "trnc" as well.
Yet there are striking differences which you chose to ignore in this over generalization/continuity effort for example all GC leaders, high ranking government officials etc, Klerides, Makarios, Papadopoulos were all Eoka 55-59 leaders but not leaders or even members of the rest.

You can even stretch it upto todays ELAM LOL. Yet ELAM is more or less a Neo Nazi group.

NB.1) You wouldn't expect the Eoka 55-59 ARMED struggle to be performed "legally" under British law LOL by men dressed in taxido suits would you? In every armed struggle you need real thugs,underground people (how else would you get info??), people ready to kill and get killed. Some of them thought their target was not achieved in 1960.Some of them reformed their old groups simply to counter your sides preparing the place for an invasion from as early as 1962. All of them acting illegally of course. Still you want to draw continuity and generalizations. Fell free to do it...
2)Others (like obviously Maximus father and uncles) also think that Makarios turned Democracy into a Monartchy and hence Eokas B goal to overthrow him was an effort in establishing Democracy.Everybody might believe whatever he might chose to believe. It doesn't mean that views like that or yours is the absolute truth.

[Pyrpolizer]

One Elam guy I know boasted to me the other day that they caught a thief trying to break in a house. He said they beat him like an animal and then dumped him in the forest. No police, no anything, he said- problem solved

Did you report this to the police or is it just a joke?

Why would I care? No the guy was not joking he was serious, the incident was confirmed by other neighbors of his too, also from his wife, all of them ELAM ideology aspirers.
Btw the thief was from Roumania. They just beat him hard. Did not kill him....
Do you think he will ever break in those houses again?

[erolz66]

@erolz, the same people you say, perhaps they were in eoka, eoka was not in them. if it were, they would not have expected success without the People behind them.

I say ? Perhaps were in eoka ? Come on RW you KNOW the likes of Yiorkatsis were in eoka, you must do. Your use of 'you say' and 'perhaps' just shows the degree to which in my view you are in 'denial'. That fact is Yiorkatsis was useful to and rose through the ranks of eoka because he was a brutal thug willing to use illegal violence and force against enemies and innocents alike to achieve his political aims (as some in tmt were useful to them and rose through their ranks for the same reason). He was made interior minister post 60 for the same reason and he was useful to eoka b and in turn such a threat to Makarios by that time that he was summarily and extra judicially killed for the same reason. You say 'eoka' was not in him. Maybe not 'your' eoka , of a noble struggle to end British colonial rule but 'his' eoka' , of seeking to achieve enosis by the use of illegal violence against fellow Cypriots most certainly was 'in him', in 55, 64 and right up to his murder. This revisionist attempt to make out that only 'your' eoka ever existed and anyone following 'his' eoka was not actually really anything to do with eoka at all and possibly never even existed at all (you say, perhaps) is what is so frustrating about you RW and what for me undermines so much of your 'fine words' about 'Cypriots protecting Cypriots' and Cyprus flag flying higher than Greek or Turkish ones in Cyprus.

[Pyrpolizer]

This Elam ideology guy that I know of he only sides with them on the matter of beating up foreigners.
Here's another incident he told me:
On guy, from Lebanon or Syria(don't remember) was coming every month with his yacht at Larnaca Marina.He would park it there, take a taxi go straight to Nicosia, take his cheque for what he said was more than 2000 Euros, and then sail back. Each and every month!! He was registered as political asylum seaker.
He said they just reported him, and ever since he never showed again. But... he said if nothing had happened they would arrange the matter themselves, you know beating him like hell to learn his lesson

[erolz66]

Yet there are striking differences which you chose to ignore in this over generalization/continuity effort for example all GC leaders, high ranking government officials etc, Klerides, Makarios, Papadopoulos were all Eoka 55-59 leaders but not leaders or even members of the rest.

Interior minister is not a 'high ranking official' ? Papadopoulous and Klerides were nothing to do with 'the organisation' referred to in the Akritas plan ? Come on !