Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

eoka, eoka b and elam are all the same shit.

[Maximus]

Eoka B (and 'the organisation' before it) has exactly the same relationship to Eoka as the Real IRA have to the IRA. There is a continuity of people, objectives and means that runs from eoka, through to 'the organisation' and on to eoka b.

That's like saying that because Denktash formed the TMT together with others, that his "trnc" are also TMT.
For one, Eoka (1955-59) had the support of almost all the GCs whereas Eoka B had almost no support .

There is a lot of confusion as to who were the Eoka B.
Immediately after independence we had the groups of Ex eoka leaders, as for example the Samson, Yiorkatsis, Lyssarides groups, then we had Ethnikon Metopo (National Frontier) with a different leader, and only in 1971-2 the Eoka B with Grivas. Yet most people call them all Eoka B!!

The striking difference is that Eoka B was financed by the US Government. My father had a friend in Eoka B and asked him directly if the get money from America. He said yes -but not that much and not every month- and he showed him the official US Gvnt draft, with the seals on, I saw it with my own eyes.

The "TRNC" is TMT and the TC's refused and refuse democracy.

The TC's also threaten to use Violence to maintain the occupation of Cyprus and to retain control of the property they looted from the GC's in 1974. Which they secured through refusing democracy and violance.

ELAM and EOKA (any division) are more democratic than the TC's.

[Pyrpolizer]

Please explain because I am of the belief that Cyprus was not democratic until 1974 and Cyprus would not be or in the EU today if Eoka-b did not come to pass.

That's a long story Max. Cyprus was never really Democratic, we had Makarios and he would do anything he wanted.If anybody wanted something he would go to Makarios. Even TCs went to Makarios complaining they had no electricity and no road to their village. Next day they got it. Makarios like that kind of "licking" very much.
The TCs had their own lunatic, Kutchuk at first, Denktash later who were driving towards a state within a state.From 1963 onwards we were split, the Tcs in the enclaves with their own Government and the GCs running the RoC as they wished.
The official purpose of Eoka B was to get rid of Makarios and then declare Enosis. That's why they did the coup.
Now how on earth you concluded that Eoka B brought Democracy here only God knows.

Not even today, inside the EU we are a true Democracy. He are POLITICAL-PARTY-CRACY.

[Pyrpolizer]

Eoka B (and 'the organisation' before it) has exactly the same relationship to Eoka as the Real IRA have to the IRA. There is a continuity of people, objectives and means that runs from eoka, through to 'the organisation' and on to eoka b.

That's like saying that because Denktash formed the TMT together with others, that his "trnc" are also TMT.
For one, Eoka (1955-59) had the support of almost all the GCs whereas Eoka B had almost no support .

There is a lot of confusion as to who were the Eoka B.
Immediately after independence we had the groups of Ex eoka leaders, as for example the Samson, Yiorkatsis, Lyssarides groups, then we had Ethnikon Metopo (National Frontier) with a different leader, and only in 1971-2 the Eoka B with Grivas. Yet most people call them all Eoka B!!

The striking difference is that Eoka B was financed by the US Government. My father had a friend in Eoka B and asked him directly if the get money from America. He said yes -but not that much and not every month- and he showed him the official US Gvnt draft, with the seals on, I saw it with my own eyes.

The "TRNC" is TMT and the TC's refused and refuse democracy.

The TC's also threaten to use Violence to maintain the occupation of Cyprus and to retain control of the property they looted from the GC's in 1974. Which they secured through refusing democracy and violance.

ELAM and EOKA (any division) are more democratic than the TC's.

Talat was a TMT?

[Pyrpolizer]

eoka, eoka b and elam are all the same shit.

with the same logic Dektash TMT and erogly are the same shit as well.
The difference is the GCs don't elect them to be their leaders whereas you do.
erogly was tmt leader in famagusta

[Maximus]

Please explain because I am of the belief that Cyprus was not democratic until 1974 and Cyprus would not be or in the EU today if Eoka-b did not come to pass.

That's a long story Max. Cyprus was never really Democratic, we had Makarios and he would do anything he wanted.If anybody wanted something he would go to Makarios. Even TCs went to Makarios complaining they had no electricity and no road to their village. Next day they got it. Makarios like that kind of "licking" very much.
The TCs had their own lunatic, Kutchuk at first, Denktash later who were driving towards a state within a state.From 1963 onwards we were split, the Tcs in the enclaves with their own Government and the GCs running the RoC as they wished.
The official purpose of Eoka B was to get rid of Makarios and then declare Enosis. That's why they did the coup.
Now how on earth you concluded that Eoka B brought Democracy here only God knows.

Not even today, inside the EU we are a true Democracy. He are POLITICAL-PARTY-CRACY.

Thats right, to give Turkey an excuse to invade and Taksim the northern third of the island.

Where are we going with this debate anyway?

[erolz66]

That's like saying that because Denktash formed the TMT together with others, that his "trnc" are also TMT.

I do not think so ? I am not saying that those in sien fein today who were in the IRA previously have a continuity of people, goals and means. Their means today have definitely changed, arguably their goals have, even though there is a continuity of people. What I am saying is that there is a continuity between the IRA then and the real IRA now of people, goals and means. Just as there was the same continuity for those in eoka b in 74 back through 'the organisation' and back to eoka. The real IRA has less support than the IRA had but it does not change the fact of the continuity of people, goals and means.

There is a 'thesis' that eoka b was somehow an entirely separate entity with no connection back to eoka, in terms of people, means and goals and it is just BS propaganda as far as I am concerned not rooted in truth or reality.

Samson was a brutal thug willing to use illegal force and violence on innocents to achieve his political aims, when he was in eoka and after 60 and on to when he was in eoka b. Same person , pursuing the same goal using the same means. As was Yiorkatsis. The idea that these people were 'noble warriors' pre 60 and 'vicious thugs' by 74 (or when they were taken out and killed in the case of Yiorkatsis) is not one that I subscribe to. They were vicious thugs in 55, as they still were in 64 and were in 74 (or when they were killed in the case of Yiorkatsis). They were pursuing enosis in 55, they were pursuing enosis in 65 and they were pursuing enosis in 74. They were willing to use illegal violence against those who stood in the way of their goals in 55, in 65 and in 74.

[Viewpoint]

eoka, eoka b and elam are all the same shit.

with the same logic Dektash TMT and erogly are the same shit as well.
The difference is the GCs don't elect them to be their leaders whereas you do.
erogly was tmt leader in famagusta

Not the same, Denktaş TMT and even Eroğlu all a direct response to enosis and therefore eoka, elam is just the modern day version.

[Maximus]

Eoka B (and 'the organisation' before it) has exactly the same relationship to Eoka as the Real IRA have to the IRA. There is a continuity of people, objectives and means that runs from eoka, through to 'the organisation' and on to eoka b.

That's like saying that because Denktash formed the TMT together with others, that his "trnc" are also TMT.
For one, Eoka (1955-59) had the support of almost all the GCs whereas Eoka B had almost no support .

There is a lot of confusion as to who were the Eoka B.
Immediately after independence we had the groups of Ex eoka leaders, as for example the Samson, Yiorkatsis, Lyssarides groups, then we had Ethnikon Metopo (National Frontier) with a different leader, and only in 1971-2 the Eoka B with Grivas. Yet most people call them all Eoka B!!

The striking difference is that Eoka B was financed by the US Government. My father had a friend in Eoka B and asked him directly if the get money from America. He said yes -but not that much and not every month- and he showed him the official US Gvnt draft, with the seals on, I saw it with my own eyes.

The "TRNC" is TMT and the TC's refused and refuse democracy.

The TC's also threaten to use Violence to maintain the occupation of Cyprus and to retain control of the property they looted from the GC's in 1974. Which they secured through refusing democracy and violance.

ELAM and EOKA (any division) are more democratic than the TC's.

Talat was a TMT?

No Idea but he will probably choose them over ELAM and the TMT did set up the "TRNC", which he loves no doubt.

[Maximus]

what has happened and is happening in Cyprus is not normal.

there are like two democracies, an apartheid and an occupation running at the same time.