Cyprus-Forum.com

[Anglo]

Get real UK Turk. The North of Cyprus is a third world s*** hole, and either you know it, or you walk around all day long with a guide dog and a pair of very dark Ray Banns.

I'll be collecting my pension from the back end of a zimmerframe, begging kids from the estate to pick up my fallen dentures off the dust swept floor, before the economy in the North becomes a half that of the South. It's screwed. $300 million of direct aid from Turkey aint enough to run a country, especially as my EBAY account is responsible for a greater Export / Import trade than Turkish Cypriot business.

Leave it out - no-one believes your sh*te. Turkey has screwed over the Turkish Cypriots, leaving them to wallow in poverty and it aint changing one bit.

The EU have main certain small concessions in order to smooth a possible future transition of power vis a vis unificaton. That doesn't mean that the turgid bit of territory north of the green line is going to be any more internationally recognised than my anus.

Nice imagery, Pumpernickle.

But I'm afraid you are doing a bit of wishful thinking here. In my opinion, North Cyprus is where Spain and Portugal were 20 years ago but the rate of change in just the last two years is phenomenal. Did you know that the hotel capacity of the north will expand from just 12,000 beds to over 45,000 beds in less than two years? Did you know that 15 new hotels & casinos are under construction? Have you been to Ercan? It makes Larnaca look like a provincial airport in Namibia.

[pumpernickle]

It's all very well posting up statistics and percentage increases for this and for that. e.g for land and house prices...

but you forget one small thing. While I do not doubt at all the veracity of the figures you quote, it is all relative.

If I could dip into my pocket 3 years ago, and pull out a five pound note, thus enabling me to walk through the towns and villages of Northern Cyprus with the spending power to snap up entire streets right there in my palm, then of course any changes in the market are going to have a pronounces affect on the stats.

if a house costs £400 quid, and in a couple of years it goes for £516, then n paper it's shot up by 20% or so. Still peanuts and still a shit hole with no title deeds.
I wonder what the 'council tax' is like in Northern Cyprus. A bit like all taxes there I should imagine. Arbitrary and payable accoring to who you know in some grim, concreted office block in 'Lefkosa'. Depressing.

Let's be honest. Tourism and the economy are improving in North Cyprus. But then it could hardly have been any worse or more pathetic a state of affairs now could it.

Yeah its cheap. But its low key, under developed, understaffed, removed from the laws governing insurance and financial institutions...it is a cowboy quasi state, one step away from Somalia and Chenchnya, except the Turkish Cypriots are peaceful, friendly and quite nice, so you can go there and have a decent time.

But my ar*e is North Cyprus catching up with the South. I'm sorry,but you need something called 'industry' and 'invisible exports' and 'international trade' with countries that recognise you in order to make money. Not State handouts from Turkey, who uses North Cyppiee like some kind of backwater SATELLITE state.

Greeks probably rejected the plan for many reasons, one of which is taxes would go up if the two sides joined, as they did for East and West Germany. You know why? Cos East Germany was a sh*t hole.And still is.

[BirKibrisli]

Yes,but...pumpernickle...you are not allowing for Talat's cunning.
He has this brilliant plan which will transform the TRNC economy overnight.
Well,maybe over a few nights,certainly over a few fortnights.
He has asked Condii when he was in Washington, to send all the American troops in the area to North Cyprus for a bit of R&R by direct flights.He is busy getting ready by building hotels,casinos,and brothels at a rate never seen in the world.Do you know how many American soldiers are there in places like Turkey,Iraq,Saudi Arabia?Hundreds of thousands my friend.You just wait when all that falls into place,the North will outgrow the South in less time in takes for you to pick your big nose...

[lysi]

pumpernickle, the reason turks are still occupying the north is because the greek cypriots sit on there arses and do nothing, it seems only a few greeks are prepared to complain about the occupation. most cypriots think there poxy goverment will find a settlement.

[pumpernickle]

so let me get this right (and I do not have a big nose)...because the U.S. is sending a hand full of troops over to North Turkey, on some kind of gesture, holiday, stay kind of thing, Talat has ordered armies of builders to construct brothels and casinos and hotels at a rate unseen this side of Kabul.

Forgive me if I am less than convinced by this rather amusing image.
yeah sure US troops camp out in Middle East Countries. So what? This hardly sends the nation's economy through the roof.

A few crates of Bud Light and half a dozen copies of Hustler will not revive the economy. And Talat is not ordering a building boom or any of the scandalous things you mentioned. Because he is not from the planet poo-poo.

I shouldn't be so harsh. It's obvious that anything more than a string of goats and a man in a linen suit stepping off a 747 at Ercan Airport constitutes a massive influx of foreign investment.

Look, be content in the fact that North Cyprus has at least not been overdeveloped to hell, and raped by the corporate pigs that have ransacked every other country in the world, including China.
A bit of isolation and localised industry and subsistance farming never heard anyone. In fact, it might be the way to go.

Better sell your soul to Ataturk than Walt Disney or Coca Cola.

[pumpernickle]

He has asked Condii when he was in Washington, to send all the American troops in the area to North Cyprus for a bit of R&R by direct flights.He is busy getting ready by building hotels,casinos,and brothels at a rate never seen in the world.Do you know how many American soldiers are there in places like Turkey,Iraq,Saudi Arabia?Hundreds of thousands my friend.You just wait when all that falls into place,the North will outgrow the South in less time in takes for you to pick your big nose...

*Pumpernickle's old lady's opinion*

Err . . . and the US could not send troops over to Northern Cyprus for R&R unless there was a settlement of the Cyprus problem and the US decided to formally recognise TRNC. Otherwise, the US would end up in somewhat of a diplomatic tightspot. With Iraq, they tried to bend UN resolutions (in doing do, recognised their strategic importance). If they committed federal Pentagon money to an unrecognised state, not only would they outrightly contravene UN resolutions on TRNC and the invasion, but the Greek block in the US would go ballastic.

Besides, if I were TC, the last thing I would want was hundreds of American soldiers hanging around . . . and honestly, I don't think it would make the North boom either. For that you need a multiplicity of foreign and domestic investment - "a one source horse dies when its trough runs dry".

[zan]

He has asked Condii when he was in Washington, to send all the American troops in the area to North Cyprus for a bit of R&R by direct flights.He is busy getting ready by building hotels,casinos,and brothels at a rate never seen in the world.Do you know how many American soldiers are there in places like Turkey,Iraq,Saudi Arabia?Hundreds of thousands my friend.You just wait when all that falls into place,the North will outgrow the South in less time in takes for you to pick your big nose...

*Pumpernickle's old lady's opinion*

Err . . . and the US could not send troops over to Northern Cyprus for R&R unless there was a settlement of the Cyprus problem and the US decided to formally recognise TRNC. Otherwise, the US would end up in somewhat of a diplomatic tightspot. With Iraq, they tried to bend UN resolutions (in doing do, recognised their strategic importance). If they committed federal Pentagon money to an unrecognised state, not only would they outrightly contravene UN resolutions on TRNC and the invasion, but the Greek block in the US would go ballastic.

Besides, if I were TC, the last thing I would want was hundreds of American soldiers hanging around . . . and honestly, I don't think it would make the North boom either. For that you need a multiplicity of foreign and domestic investment - "a one source horse dies when its trough runs dry".

[05] HURRIYET gives details about Turkish investments in the occupied by 40,000 Turkish troops part of the Republic of Cyprus. British investments are taken as indirect recognition
Istanbul HURRIYET newspaper (06.08.05) publishes the following report by Demet Cengiz under the title: "Boom in Tourism Investment in daughter country":
An upsurge in tourism investments is being seen in the TRNC. With the completion of 66 hotels still being built the bed capacity in the TRNC will rise from 8,000 to 19,500. While investment has been attracted to Bafra, which has been declared a tourism investment area, there are other locations where holiday resorts are being constructed rapidly such as Girne, Magusa and Iskele. With new investment in the TRNC bed capacity is expected to rise to 30,000 in five years, and to 70,000 in 30 years.
Subtitle: Bafra to get $250 million
The Director for the TRNC Tourism Ministry Salih Egemen gave out the following information in connection with the upsurge in tourism investment in the TRNC: "Bafra was declared a planned tourism investment area. Sites were set aside in the area for 11 hotels. One was allocated as a State reserve. Lease agreements have been made for nine hotels. Preliminary work has been done for the Eren Talu Project. With these investments in Bafra, which total around $250 million, the area will achieve an 8,000-bed capacity in two years."
Stating that they were going to make plans for Yayla, Egemen said: "In the wake of the intense interest seen in Vokolidha we planned to make this place a tourism investment area as well. We are going to open Kumkyali up to investment."
In a once only offer the TKB's [Turkish Development Bank] provision of credit for tourism investment in Cyprus has accelerated investment in Vokolidha. At the end of 2002 22 companies applied for credit. The TKB gave YTL 105 million to eight companies.
Subtitle: Spearhead Port Barbaros
Cyprus-born businesswoman Sidika Atalay, who transferred the $100 million Port Barbaros Project, one of the TRNC's biggest tourism investment schemes, over to the British LTG Company, said: "This project, which we started in 1999, spearheaded tourism investment in northern Cyprus. This is a project that will set an example for the entire Mediterranean. We transferred the project over to the British LTG Company in March. It is now the largest foreign investment to be made there. This investment also means that the TRNC is recognized, albeit unofficially."
Subtitle: Threat from South causing worries
Sidika Atalay has this to say about the threat from the south and France's attitude: "Foreigners are buying property on Cyprus. These kinds of remarks cause some concern but it passes and purchases continue. Direct flights are what is going to have the greatest effect on TRNC tourism. These kinds of statements strengthen the likelihood of there being no direct flights to the TRNC. Even though foreign investment research is continuing any investment about to begin is put off indefinitely because of such remarks. Direct flights from Azerbaijan caused excitement on the island."
Subtitle. Tourism In TRNC may catch up with Southern Cyprus in 10-15 years
The Chairman of the Association of Tourism Investors Oktay Varlier pointed out there was a good potential for tourism in northern Cyprus saying: "Cyprus is virgin land. It could become a very important tourism destination. Various locations have been identified in Bafra. Significant investment is being done there." Recalling that southern Cyprus had a 110,000 bed capacity and hosted 3 million tourists every year Varlier said: "The tourism bed capacity in northern Cyprus is approximately 8-12,000. We get around 400,000 tourists. A large number of those are Turks who go there for the casinos. The TRNC has about one tenth the bed capacity of southern Cyprus. As for the number of tourists; the south gets seven-eight times more than the north. Within five years the bed capacity in the TRNC will reach 25-30,000. In the long term it will be 70,000 in 30 years."
Subtitle: Important potential even with embargo In place
CEO of GOCTUR, which has begun a 1,050-bed capacity investment in Bafra at the cost of $35 million, Mustafa Gocen detailed investment in the TRNC: "This investment will take place in two stages. The first stage of 700 beds will be concluded at a cost of $28 million. With the second phase the entire project will cost $35 million. We began the project in September 2004 with credit from the TKB. Bank credit accounts for 60 percent of the investment, with the remainder coming out of our own pocket. Expectations for Cyprus have attracted major tourism companies there. However, there is nowhere for tourists to stay in the TRNC. We saw a great potential and we rolled up our sleeves for investment. Tourists fly directly from Turkey and indirectly from Europe to Cyprus. The TRNC's potential is great even with the economic embargo in place

[Anglo]

Yavas, yavas, siga, siga, the north's economy will catch up. The EU is involved behind the scenes in educating and reforming the banking and business sector as well as the civil service. Also, much of the foreign investment is from Israel - follow the Jews and you can't lose...

[BirKibrisli]

What did I tell you?Developed world here we come.Australia was developed on sheeps' back.The TRNC will be developed on the back of casinos and brothels.(Really on people's back,or people laying on their backs )

But,Zan,given the number of brothels in the TRNC,do you think it is appropriate to say "Cyprus is virgin land!"?

And,btw,on whose land are these great hotels being built?Can't be on GC land we are getting ready to give back,can it???

[zan]

What did I tell you?Developed world here we come.Australia was developed on sheeps' back.The TRNC will be developed on the back of casinos and brothels.(Really on people's back,or people laying on their backs )

But,Zan,given the number of brothels in the TRNC,do you think it is appropriate to say "Cyprus is virgin land!"?

And,btw,on whose land are these great hotels being built?Can't be on GC land we are getting ready to give back,can it???

You know I have had more charitable reactions from Greeks than I have had from you. You must have had such a traumatic Turkish experience in your life that you can only see what Source sees. In that posting there was mention of Hotels and Tourism, you saw Casinos and Brothels or are you saying that every one that will visit the TRNC will come for gambling and sex? I repeat once again that, had the RoC not put an embargo on the North and or given it unreasonable conditions under which it could sell any produce, then things could have been very different. To hold siege on a people and expect them to come out of it well fed and sparkling clean is laughable. These are your people that were put under great duress, whether you want to call them Turks OR Cypriots. For you to scoff at these people for pulling themselves out of a difficult position and maybe at last getting on with their lives is I think deplorable. You see only the army and completely ignore the larger numbers of PEOPLES.
I am going to reply also to your other post where you try to satisfy my curiosity about you. You say that you would have been happy for the Turks to come in and stop the fighting in 1974 and then just go home and wait for the next episode to erupt and then come back again. I think you over simplify the whole thing. I don’t for one minute think that Turkey went into Cyprus without the semi consent of at least America. The same America that is now in Iraq. Do you also think that they should pull out of Iraq so that the very regime that they wanted out can walk straight back in again. I am not talking about their motives, but more about their tactics. Turkey was given a chance and a moral obligation to protect its people and claims to the island, and it took it.
When I went to Cyprus a couple of years ago, I went out one evening and just at the top of my sisters road I could see over the border the twinkling lights of the GC houses. I did not realise how close these people were to one another. I felt fear for and worried about my sisters’ safety if any thing were to happen again. She and her family were within range of bullets let alone an advancing army. I had my reservations about the Turkish army from the stories I had heard but at that moment and to this day I am glad that they are there. This was not long after seeing what the UN was NOT doing in the Balkans and in Africa with the Tutsis’ and the Hutus’ . Possession is nine tenths of the law. Do you think that Turkey was going to step away two minutes after the Greeks were wanting Enosis. You won’t even give the TRNC five minutes to sort them selves out and make a go of it why should we accept Greece saying, “ it’s alright now we changed our minds”.
You want us to offer full trust to the Greeks but you offer no trust to us to shape our own destiny because of your utopian dream that man has evolved enough and sensible enough to overcome. I personally am beginning to think that this is actually a smoke screen for some deep hurt that you harbour inside. I only say that because I have only just come out of such a condition myself. My coma was induced by the fact that I was forcibly evicted from a country that I should have grown up in and instead I grew up in a country in the years when it was hard to be a foreigner. I was embarrassed because I was different so I became English to fit in and hated everything that reminded me that I was not, including, to an extent, my family. I will leave you to ponder your own demons.

I read every day the problems that occur in the Roc. Apart from a few political wise cracks some of you throw in, it seems that the RoC has already reached this utopian state. Stones and glasshouses come to mind as well as gangsters, corruption, human rights and racism, which are but a few. Don’t even get me started about EU double standards.

I was even wondering if you could give me an example of anywhere, other than inside your head, where this utopia exists. I don’t think that Darwin ever stumbled upon it. There is no where out there that cannot be criticised for something or another.

Virginity is something that Cyprus cannot claim for itself. It has been F***ked over for most of its adult life but that does not mean that it cannot start over. It will have a double identity and will need therapy but in the long run it will find peace with it self whether with a split personality or in the future a single entity.

The land that is being built on is in the hands of the TRNC basically. There may be talk that land is going to be given back but (and this is not because I don’t want them to) I don’t think it will happen. Maybe a few token repossessions will be permitted but on the whole I think a policy of compensation will be awarded and that will be delayed for decades. This is the politics of the real world and not the “I want it now” world that you and I frequent on this forum and in the Cafes. With every twist of the political deck of cards we exclaim with “oohs” and “ahhs” but everything goes one step forward and two steps back. Turkey, Greece, RoC or the TRNC are not about to sign anything away just yet.