Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

First of all we are talking a very clear majority, not a "majority".

I am not very familiar with exactly what sharia law entails, but if it includes human rights violations then no. If there is a version of sharia law where all human rights are protected then yes.

"Giving your country to another" in what way? For sure this is not what we asked for in Cyprus. Enosis means union, not giveaway. Cypriots would be equal citizens of the resulting union, not subjects of a some foreign empire, as it had been the case with the British and the Ottomans.

[Maximus]

VP, Erolz

Why you are so scared of Greece, Greek and Enosis?

[Viewpoint]

First of all we are talking a very clear majority, not a "majority".

I am not very familiar with exactly what sharia law entails, but if it includes human rights violations then no. If there is a version of sharia law where all human rights are protected then yes.

"Giving your country to another" in what way? For sure this is not what we asked for in Cyprus. Enosis means union, not giveaway. Cypriots would be equal citizens of the resulting union, not subjects of a some foreign empire, as it had been the case with the British and the Ottomans.

You do not want to know what sharia law is Piratis, eg cutting off your hand for stealing, stoning for adultry etc etc but according to what you demand a very clear majority which in our case would be the GCs could in theory vote for such a change, could they not?

When did crete become an independent country? was it wehn they "united" with Greece?

[Piratis]

No majority in a democratic European country can vote for laws that violate basic human rights in such a way. Democracy means Majority Rule & Human and Minority Rights and that is what we want. On the other hand what you demand is not democracy, since it would violate both principles of Majority Rule and Human rights.

[Viewpoint]

No majority in a democratic European country can vote for laws that violate basic human rights in such a way. Democracy means Majority Rule & Human and Minority Rights and that is what we want. On the other hand what you demand is not democracy, since it would violate both principles of Majority Rule and Human rights.

Thats where you are wrong if the majority want it they can do it, Who will stop them? If we accept that 80% are GCs and 20% are TCs and 80% vote for changing the laws of a united Cyprus into Sharia Laws, Who will stop them? with no guarantees in place no one will step into stop such a move. Isnt the above democratic according to you Piratis?

[erolz66]

VP, Erolz

Why you are so scared of Greece, Greek and Enosis?

Neither you or Piratis would accept Cyprus being made a region of the UK or Turkey against the collective will of the GC community even if your individual rights were absolutely guaranteed under such arrangements. Why then do you find it so hard to understand that TC resisted Cyprus, their homeland, being made a region of Greece against their collective will ?

[Klik]

VP, Erolz

Why you are so scared of Greece, Greek and Enosis?

Neither you or Piratis would accept Cyprus being made a region of the UK or Turkey against the collective will of the GC community even if your individual rights were absolutely guaranteed under such arrangements. Why then do you find it so hard to understand that TC resisted Cyprus, their homeland, being made a region of Greece against their collective will ?

Minority... hence, irrelevant. Welcome to democracy.

If Enosis was achieved in the 50s and you had received no funding from Turkey(TMT) or Britain(hiring in the police force), then you would have had no issues as minorities of a Greek island. No one would have oppressed you. Ask your grandparents, before the 30s everything was relatively cool. Then the British wanted some sort of partition since they wouldn't have accepted Enosis, never intended to. Then you chose to resist to us. You chose to resist to logic. And now it's us who are living the illogical nonsense. And you want us to push for more illogical nonsense because your feelings might get hurt...

[repulsewarrior]

...are you afraid of Sharia Law, re vp? (are you serious?)

...were they to you, as they look at themselves, Welsh, and Scot, Irish, and English; British? (were you afraid, of them?)

when you lived in Britain, did you look at the blokes with envy, even though you had the vote and equal to "theirs"?

so,

...what are you trying to sell, that anyone Greek can be pasted as in-Human, as a tribute to you, as simple as that, accepting some bobble headed reasoning that all Greeks would vote like "Greeks" (i imagine Sharia Law, you fear the most, or perhaps it is what you imagine "Greeks" fear the most), after all, here you are their victim a kind of 'everyman' that represents nothing more that what is "its" dogma, snap of your finger and "they" are less trusty than any other Human being, "we" (anyone who is not "Greek") can trust you, another snap of your finger and someone Turkish becomes "a traitor", because in representing "Turks" you find "they" react in kind? this is your reasoning to segregate, and to demand submission, to make it impossible to integrate if we choose to, because "you", you, expect it, for the rest of us to live "this" for our normal lives.

"this" must stop, you have said it yourself. and instead of defending a respective myth, an accessory to a Proxy War in this debate "of motherlands", changing requires a (i think GR coined the phrase) Cypriot Way , new thinking, Modern let us say (already in a different Age), but ageless, what is Turkish should thrive, so too what is Greek, this is Liberty. yet when it comes to Freedom, Cypriots are prepared to defend themselves as the Sovereign People, with one Flag, and one Government as a Republic, this island's Stewards, as Citizens, equals without any distinction or discrimination, (a Constitution that is reformed to represent us as) Individuals; why not two levels of government, and thus as an equal to the other Constituencies, (this "virgin birth") a Greek Constituency: i ask, is this not Bicommunal, Bizonal, and a Federation?

@erolz, Greek Cypriots represent an overwhelming majority of the island, it would be hard to imagine that anything else would be obvious to them, given the nature, and the existence of a Greek State (read: Greece) since Lord Byron. your question is not entirely fair, and it is based on the premise that Cyprus is a thing, like property, that it is Turkish by right, the Greeks that are its island-dwellers no different in that regard than at any other in its long History, its chattel. i can understand that there is a need for representation so that we rest secure in knowing the services that we can provide ourselves serves us as Persons, but i hope that you will agree, in Cyprus, Cypriotness can be defined by this understanding, a Greek state, perhaps (by sheer numbers), but by choice Cypriot, a State, where within Cypriots can define themselves as Constituencies by their place of residence, as well. wouldn't you agree, a Greek Constituency is missing from the debate as such, that without it, the Republic will remain dysfunctional; that indeed, Cypriotness, needs no ethnicity?

[erolz66]

, accepting some bobble headed reasoning that all Greeks would vote like "Greeks"

Is this not what happened historically ? Was it not claimed that the plebiscite in the 50's showed 96% support for enosis by GC ? Did not the pro enosist target and murder GC who argued against enosis and for a pan Cypriot unity ?

your question is not entirely fair, and it is based on the premise that Cyprus is a thing, like property, that it is Turkish by right,...

Not at all. My question is based on the notion that people have a right to self determination. To not be ruled, against their will in their own homeland, by those, disconnected by geography, that consider and define themselves as 'other'. The idea that enosis was a legitimate expression of the will of a unitary Cypriot people is just nonsense, a sophistry used to try and deny that Cypriots who were not Greek have this inalienable right to self determination from which all other rights derive, just the same as those Cypriots who are Greek have.

[Piratis]

Not at all. My question is based on the notion that people have a right to self determination. To not be ruled, against their will in their own homeland, by those, disconnected by geography, that consider and define themselves as 'other'. The idea that enosis was a legitimate expression of the will of a unitary Cypriot people is just nonsense, a sophistry used to try and deny that Cypriots who were not Greek have this inalienable right to self determination from which all other rights derive, just the same as those Cypriots who are Greek have.

The "notions" you describe are just your own, made up by you to excuse the inexcusable. First of all, being "disconnected by geography" is irrelevant, otherwise every island should have been an independent country. Secondly, it is not your human, ethnic or other right to choose who will rule over the territory you reside. In democracy who rules is something that is decided by the majority, not by individuals or minority groups.

Enosis was supported by the vast majority of Cypriots and that is more than enough. The approval of every single individual or group was not required to make enosis legitimate and fair.

Unfortunately the British Colonialists (and their American backers), who had (and continue to have) direct strategic interests in Cyprus, are members of the UN Security Council, and this is the sole reason why our just cause could not pass from the UN. Had Cyprus being a colony of Italy (like Rhodes), then enosis would have happened right after WWII (like Rhodes). The fact that enosis was not allowed has everything to do with the interests of the AngloAmericans and absolutely nothing with any rights of your minority.