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Looks like a showdown between NATO and Russia

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Re: Looks like a showdown between NATO and Russia

Postby Paphitis » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:53 pm

Maximus wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Maximus wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Maximus wrote:Paphitis,

the British have to guarantee the sovereign integrity of the republic of Cyprus, which they are not doing. Those treaties are worthless and were violated in 1974.

You can bet your last Aussie dollar that if there was a conflict in Cyprus involving the British expats, they would venture out of the SBA's and invade Cyprus.


True, but it still does not invalidate other treaties.

Ukraine also, as a sovereign entity, can't have its territory violated and if it is it is a violation of international law. Iraq, Afghanistan too!


I can accept everyone getting out of the Ukraine and respecting its territorial integrity but the US mainly with the EU, who are stupid enough to get involved do not live by the laws they expect everyone else to adhere to.


That is not entirely true!

Even in Iraq and Afghanistan their territorial integrity and sovereignty were restored which is not the case with Ossetia and not Russia's intentions for Ukraine.


but look at the state of those countries now. At least they are in one piece, like Syria.


Sure these countries are in a bit of a mess!

But, let's look at Afghanistan. That country is in a better place today without the Taliban. Life is getting better all the time and a Afghanis feel more secure.
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Re: Looks like a showdown between NATO and Russia

Postby Maximus » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:58 pm

What about Cyprus Paphitis?
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Re: Looks like a showdown between NATO and Russia

Postby Paphitis » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:17 pm

Maximus wrote:What about Cyprus Paphitis?


Cyprus too Maximus.

It should be exactly the same for everyone. Can't just carve up a country!
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Re: Looks like a showdown between NATO and Russia

Postby Maximus » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:24 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Maximus wrote:What about Cyprus Paphitis?


Cyprus too Maximus.

It should be exactly the same for everyone. Can't just carve up a country!


But they did and they are trying to put it back together (or not) in a way that suits their interests and the initial agenda to divide it in the first place.
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Re: Looks like a showdown between NATO and Russia

Postby Paphitis » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:45 pm

Maximus wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Maximus wrote:What about Cyprus Paphitis?


Cyprus too Maximus.

It should be exactly the same for everyone. Can't just carve up a country!


But they did and they are trying to put it back together (or not) in a way that suits their interests and the initial agenda to divide it in the first place.


We had it all Max and pissed it up the wall.
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Re: Looks like a showdown between NATO and Russia

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:18 pm

Maximus:
Russia did not invade. Those Russians were there along with their navy and troops ever since Crimea was Russian, until 1954. There was an undemocratic decision to cede it to the Ukraine. They just woke up one morning to discover that they are now Ukrainian and they didn't have a say in that either.

The Russians in Crimea did not kill, commit ethnic cleansing or steal other people’s property or demand 'political equality' like the TC's and Turks did in Cyprus. Russia didn't do this either to take it (back).

The west has made Russia out to be the biggest bogey-man on the planet, when I am more inclined to believe the opposite.

I agree completely with that statement and I see the US as the prime trouble maker NOT Russia ..... not that I think Putin is doing it out of compassion for those in Ukraine, let’s face it, it all comes down to the bottom line and vested interests in the end? But so far I think he has proved to be the politician and tactician that the US wishes they had!

You can bet your last Aussie dollar that if there was a conflict in Cyprus involving the British expats, they would venture out of the SBA's and invade Cyprus.

You have more faith in the UK Government than I have! If the US gave them permission to leave their bases maybe, but otherwise, the UK would find some reason to convene an ‘internal conference’ to discuss the situation rather than do anything that would risk upsetting the US/Israel.

Paphitis:
No matter what internal political issues they have, they should be allowed to sort it out themselves.

So how would you justify the US giving finance to these Nazi/Fascist groups in Ukraine to the tune of £5bn over 10 years, supporting the overthrow of the elected President/Government, by an armed coup carried out by the same armed groups, giving instant recognition to an unelected government and the payment of $1bn as a reward? And yet at the same time the US/NATO/EU condemn a democratic referendum that was deemed fair and representative of the wishes of the people by EU observers? It was the will of the vast majority of those living in Crimea and it was what the UN describes in its policy as self determination. So, what right does the US have to say whether they recognise the vote or not? It is about time the rest of the world stood up to the US and said ‘enough-is-enough’, go back to your own country, stay there and sort out the US problems first and let others sort out theirs.

None of this has anything to do with the US nor does it constitute a threat to US National Security or to the security of the EU! But if the s**t hits the fan it will be the countries of the EU that will take the hammering not the USA, their allies will be used a sacrificial lambs .......... in fact that is happening already on the commercial front!

Paphitis, when dealing with the US there is only one game in town and that is the one the US wants. Forget negotiations or discussions, the US will decide the outcome they want and everything else will be written around that. There is discussion, provided it is about supporting what the US wants out of the deal, any other suggestions will be discounted and the proposers vilified as being ‘uncooperative’.

For the first time since the end of the cold war the US has come up against an opponent that can fight back. They normally pick a country they consider to be a turkey shoot and know that capitulation or annihilation are the only two options open to their victims. The Russians know they cannot defeat the US but the US are very aware that Russia can hurt them ......... badly. Those opposed to US hegemony have started to retaliate on the economic front with China and the other BRICS nations with respect to the sale of gas/oil and trading goods in currencies other than the US dollar. They are setting up their own IMF and their own internet.

The Russians have also passed the ball back to the EU and suggested that as they are obviously ready to financially support their unelected and imposed regime in Kiev, that maybe the EU would like to pay their outstanding gas bill and pay up front for future deliveries.

Personally I do not think that The US government will take the risk of a face-to-face confrontation with Russia so, it will be an odds on certainty that if it comes to military confrontation the US will use proxy NATO forces to do the fighting for them. A shield of nuclear weapons will not prevent the US from getting hurt and if that happens it is Armageddon for all of us!

But hey ......... it’s more money for the international banking cartel .......... but fortunately they will go down with the rest of us? :roll:
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Re: Looks like a showdown between NATO and Russia

Postby Get Real! » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:32 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Paphitis wrote:...if they do, Russia is not a match. They will get hit hard.

I gotta keep reminding myself that you're Australian... :lol:


You know it too! :wink:

Russia just ain't what it use to be.

:? It’s exactly the opposite!

Russia is the ONLY country in the world that can blitz any country it chooses in minutes with the world’s most sophisticated ICBMs, and they also have the world’s most sophisticated air defenses/radars that will severely limit their victim from striking back.

America’s ICBM program is so primitive, so flawed, so limited that they’re a joke against Russia, their air defenses are also a primitive joke and rather non existent in most of the US!
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Re: Looks like a showdown between NATO and Russia

Postby Paphitis » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:37 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Paphitis wrote:...if they do, Russia is not a match. They will get hit hard.

I gotta keep reminding myself that you're Australian... :lol:


You know it too! :wink:

Russia just ain't what it use to be.

:? It’s exactly the opposite!

Russia is the ONLY country in the world that can blitz any country it chooses in minutes with the world’s most sophisticated ICBMs, and they also have the world’s most sophisticated air defenses/radars that will severely limit their victim from striking back.

America’s ICBM program is so primitive, so flawed, so limited that they’re a joke against Russia, their air defenses are also a primitive joke and rather non existent in most of the US!


Oh for crying out loud! They are not the only ones with ICBMs so I don't think they would ever do such a thing.

I don't think American Missiles are primitive at all. In fact, American technology is a lot more superior!

They can still turn the globe into glass twice over! :lol:
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Re: Looks like a showdown between NATO and Russia

Postby yialousa1971 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:05 pm

Paphitis wrote:Looks like NATO is getting serious.

Possibility of deploying forces in the Black Sea and Eastern Europe. Wonder if the Russians will withdraw now?


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