Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Police will be stationed in each state and there will also be a federal police force,more than enough. talat incident the police chief fired.what ever whith the murders os Isaac and Solomon?how I'm i going to kick the shit out of you?that police can't handle.

Look if you want political equality it has to be everything not pick and choose now answer please.

deal?

The İssac and Soloman incidents although regrettable happened in a war zone where there was mayhem and danger, Talat was just attending a meeting as your guest, totally 2 different things. Think of it this way do you trust TC police? then times that by 10 and you will understand how much we trust GC police.

This is not political equality its manipulating the system to beat the shit out of the other side and place them in great danger. The guarantors should decide whether intervention is necessary not the waring factions, all they can do is ask for help.

[Demonax]

The İssac and Soloman incidents although regrettable happened in a war zone where there was mayhem and danger, Talat was just attending a meeting as your guest, totally 2 different things.

You're right. Completely different. Two Greek Cypriot men were killed by a savage mob of Turkish officials and extremists. Then their murderers were praised as heroes and given senior jobs in the occupation administration. No- one has been brought to justice for the crimes even though the murderers are well-known.

In the case of Talat, a group of protestors broke a window. No- one was hurt. The next day the police chief was sacked for allowing the protesters to disrupt the meeting.

The two cases are vastly different.

The guarantors should decide whether intervention is necessary not the waring factions, all they can do is ask for help.

You're confusing the 'right of guarantee' with a law and order issue. The treaty of guarantee was designed to protect the sovereignty of the Republic. Something which Turkey violated and blatantly abused.

The best guarantee for Turkish Cypriots is that they commit to a just settlement which reverses the occupation. Anything else would lead to bitterness and instability.

[Lordo]

you are forgetting who tried to take over the island which led to the intervention. and of course you gc swine were so respecting of the tcs in 74, and swine will fly too. now bugger off. where is the charlui ugly swine when you need him.

[boulio]

Police will be stationed in each state and there will also be a federal police force,more than enough. talat incident the police chief fired.what ever whith the murders os Isaac and Solomon?how I'm i going to kick the shit out of you?that police can't handle.

Look if you want political equality it has to be everything not pick and choose now answer please.

deal?

The İssac and Soloman incidents although regrettable happened in a war zone where there was mayhem and danger, Talat was just attending a meeting as your guest, totally 2 different things. Think of it this way do you trust TC police? then times that by 10 and you will understand how much we trust GC police.

This is not political equality its manipulating the system to beat the shit out of the other side and place them in great danger. The guarantors should decide whether intervention is necessary not the waring factions, all they can do is ask for help.

I'm sorry vp you don't want to answer the question.Cyprus will be demilitarized ,in the EU,all foreign troops gone and a good police presence in both states and on the federal level.double majorities for Greece,turkey,GB to intervene.Political equality.If the tc demand political equality on ALL MATTERS the gc should demand it on security.

[repulsewarrior]

Police will be stationed in each state and there will also be a federal police force,more than enough. talat incident the police chief fired.what ever whith the murders os Isaac and Solomon?how I'm i going to kick the shit out of you?that police can't handle.

Look if you want political equality it has to be everything not pick and choose now answer please.

deal?

The İssac and Soloman incidents although regrettable happened in a war zone where there was mayhem and danger, Talat was just attending a meeting as your guest, totally 2 different things. Think of it this way do you trust TC police? then times that by 10 and you will understand how much we trust GC police.

This is not political equality its manipulating the system to beat the shit out of the other side and place them in great danger. The guarantors should decide whether intervention is necessary not the waring factions, all they can do is ask for help.

I'm sorry vp you don't want to answer the question.Cyprus will be demilitarized ,in the EU,all foreign troops gone and a good police presence in both states and on the federal level.double majorities for Greece,turkey,GB to intervene.Political equality.If the tc demand political equality on ALL MATTERS the gc should demand it on security.

...makes sense, wouldn't you say, vp?

[erolz66]

The treaty of guarantee was designed to protect the sovereignty of the Republic.

I do find this kind of revisionist history quite fascinating (and have commented on another example in another thread just recently). Fascinating in the sense that the Treaty of Guarantee is not some matter of opinion but is an easily accessible document in black and white. This idea that the ONLY purpose of the treaty of guarantee was to ensure the sovereign integrity of the RoC is plainly absurd if one simply reads the actual text, yet this does seem to be a belief of some of the GC posters here and apparently a sincerely held one. Quite amazing really.

If you READ the treaty of guarantee, rather than just take a view about what is SHOULD have been, then it is abundantly clear that it was not ONLY about protecting the sovereignty of the RoC but was also about precluding either enosis or taksim AND about protecting the constitution of the RoC as established under the other 60's agreements. I really can not see how anyone who actually reads it could in any sensible way deny this. It is there in plain black and white unambiguous text.

The best guarantee for Turkish Cypriots is that they commit to a just settlement which reverses the occupation. Anything else would lead to bitterness and instability.

Whilst on one level this seems a 'fair' proposal - for who can argue with the words 'just settlement'. However you need to also understand how easy it is for me as a TC to read this simply as 'agreed to OUR settlement (based on our unilateral perspective on what is just) or there will never be stability. That is, it is so easy to see the above statement as a threat from a TC perspective.

[boulio]

The treaty of guarantee was designed to protect the sovereignty of the Republic.

I do find this kind of revisionist history quite fascinating (and have commented on another example in another thread just recently). Fascinating in the sense that the Treaty of Guarantee is not some matter of opinion but is an easily accessible document in black and white. This idea that the ONLY purpose of the treaty of guarantee was to ensure the sovereign integrity of the RoC is plainly absurd if one simply reads the actual text, yet this does seem to be a belief of some of the GC posters here and apparently a sincerely held one. Quite amazing really.

If you READ the treaty of guarantee, rather than just take a view about what is SHOULD have been, then it is abundantly clear that it was not ONLY about protecting the sovereignty of the RoC but was also about precluding either enosis or taksim AND about protecting the constitution of the RoC as established under the other 60's agreements. I really can not see how anyone who actually reads it could in any sensible way deny this. It is there in plain black and white unambiguous text.

The best guarantee for Turkish Cypriots is that they commit to a just settlement which reverses the occupation. Anything else would lead to bitterness and instability.

Whilst on one level this seems a 'fair' proposal - for who can argue with the words 'just settlement'. However you need to also understand how easy it is for me as a TC to read this simply as 'agreed to OUR settlement (based on our unilateral perspective on what is just) or there will never be stability. That is, it is so easy to see the above statement as a threat from a TC perspective.

Concerning paragraph one I'll concede everything you wrote,the treaty which I also read also states that it is to the guranterors to RE-Establish the state of affairs that created by the said treaty.we are still waiting aren't we?

I think he means just settlement for everyone,tc get their political rights within a new republic ,gc get there homes back okay?

[erolz66]

Concerning paragraph one I'll concede everything you wrote,the treaty which I also read also states that it is to the guranterors to RE-Establish the state of affairs that created by the said treaty.we are still waiting aren't we?

I am not arguing (that we are still waiting ) - I am pointing out how some GC seem to sincerely believe that the purpose of the Treaty of Guarantee was solely to guarantee the sovereignty of the RoC because I personally think that some GC can seemingly hold such belief when clearly it is not the case is quite telling in general terms.

I think he means just settlement for everyone,tc get their political rights within a new republic ,gc get there homes back okay?

I will accept that is what he means and for now ignore the thorny issue of who decides what is actually 'just'. Instead I keep with the issue of guarantees and ask, do you not understand how and more importantly why a TC might have concerns about what mechanism and what agent will ensure that any terms of a future agreement are honoured after the agreement is signed. Concerns that a GC leadership may sign an agreement and then seek to declare it unfair and having been imposed on them and seek to use overt (like ignoring rulings of any equivalent of a constitutional court) and covert means to unilaterally undermine said agreement even up to and including the use of violence against the TC community should they resist such unilateral revision or non implementation ? Can you understand why a TC might have such fears and concerns ?

[boulio]

Do you understand why gc have fears of unilateral intervention?you seem to ignore the gc fears and concerns about third party actions.Thats demonax point a just settlement for everyone.not just the tc.that's why I also said about double majorities for intervention and guarantees.

[Maximus]

I dont think the GC's are goign to sign a document that

Do you understand why gc have fears of unilateral intervention?you seem to ignore the gc fears and concerns about third party actions.Thats demonax point a just settlement for everyone.not just the tc.that's why I also said about double majorities for intervention and guarantees.

Demonax is spot on,

Its absurd that the Tc's need the Gc's to sign a document that will allow Turkey to 'intervene' to maintain an unjust law and order in their favor in Cyprus. Its completely bonkers and destroys their credibility.