Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

If the property rights are reinstated to the original owners then if the politicians don't solve the mess with the settlers the economy will. If there's a demand for labour for these people then some of them will choose to stay. The issue is that in a bad economy the citizens of a country will first attempt to drop their income expectations and then migrate if no luck. The middle class will downgrade to more blue collar work. If the blue collar employment has been taken up by people willing to work for less money then that middle class will look for work abroad.

With a predominantly working class demographic such as the settlers from turkey the pain will be felt by the tc's first. Being the majority and owning more businesses, the GC's will employ more settlers than tc's for their businesses.

Don't be surprised if the tc's end up becoming the biggest xenophobes on the island after a solution primarily targeting the settlers.

Presumptions can be made but reality is always very different, we are willing to take that chance, why are the GCs so afraid of these people even when its clear that property rights will be reinstated?

Because their numbers are huge 90K Kibrislis, 150K Settlers, because from one day to another after a solution they will actually be the only ones around without property the vast majority of them of the lower to lowest class, who is going to take care of them nobody has money today, the end result we will be having a huge social problem here. And if we over overcome that crisis there will be another coming that of the demographics, it's not something painless, all rights in a country come from those demographic percentages.
It's one thing to be humane, and another losing your own rights for being humane.

How many foreigners do yo u have working in tourism in the South? the opening of Maraş will also be a boost, after a solution the ecomnomy will improve in the North therefore providing jobs, we will probably need more workers. you are looking at if form the angle of lets get rid of these people by making as many excuses as possible. Pyro do you accept to send back all those you made citizens after 1974 and all your foreign workers?

[Pyrpolizer]

Continuing my thoughts on the matter of settlers which I personally think can stand alone as a huge a problem of equal proportion as the Cyprus problem itself:
I don't blame the settlers as human beings. I don't even blame the vast majority of Kibrislis who were demolishing GC houses so that no more settlers would come and live here. I blame the Kibrisli leadership and Turkey who up until 2003 were doing everything possible to embed partition. It is only a bit before that the KIbrislis revolted against Denktash demanding a solution. Then we had that frenzy with the massive sales of Kypreoi refugee lands to carpetbaggers... When did the Kibrisli leadership or Turkey ever stopped cementing partition??

And then they say they want a solution. What kind of solution do they want? That which will load on the Kypreoi all their wrong doings? If they are honest in their intentions in wanting a solution they should of try and fix their own wrong doings before they even asked the Kypreoi to negotiate with them. This means the Kibrisli leadership should have ALREADY discussed the settlers issue with Turkey, and have found a solution about them. And then come to the Kypreoi and face them straight in the eye and say "I am honest I want a solution and I don't want to load on you all my faults and wrong doings, I don't want to change the demographics on your expense. These are the names of those I can't send back, these are the costs for their rehousing in Cyprus and this is an official binding letter from Turkey that she will pay the costs involved."

I am very sorry to say I am not seeing any honesty at all from the Kibrisli leadership regarding this matter.
They do continue giving citizenship to settlers and settlers don't miss a chance to occupy whatever properties they find empty.

Hello Pyro there are no empty properties left what are talking about? the retunr of settlers is part and parcel of the big deal, why should we send people back if there is no solution?

You are right, there aren't any empty properties, but I know of a case of a Kibrisli woman who died all her children were living abroad, and one month after some settlers took the house just like that.
And why should the settlers be part of the deal, settlers is your sides problem, why should anyone else share it and on top of it lose his demographic rights?

[Viewpoint]

Thats a very rare case Pyro lets not go there. Lets understand what you think is a settler? children born here? those married to TCs, their children? 80yo people? there has to a line drawn and your leaders understand this thats why a figure has been produced.

[Maximus]

Lets understand what you think is a settler? children born here? those married to TCs, their children? 80yo people? there has to a line drawn and your leaders understand this thats why a figure has been produced.

Why? what for?

[Pyrpolizer]

How many foreigners do yo u have working in tourism in the South? the opening of Maras, will also be a boost, after a solution the ecomnomy will improve in the North therefore providing jobs, we will probably need more workers. you are looking at if form the angle of lets get rid of these people by making as many excuses as possible. Pyro do you accept to send back all those you made citizens after 1974 and all your foreign workers?

With all this unemployment around we still have some Romanians, Bulgarians etc. But they are EU citizens we didn’t bring them here by choice. Furthermore they have no voting power, no free donation of properties. Most of them leave Cyprus after they make some money. Absolutely no change of demographics, they are only a small portion of our population. They are NOT settlers.

Lets understand what you think is a settler? children born here? those married to TCs, their children? 80yo people? there has to a line drawn and your leaders understand this thats why a figure has been produced.

No I don’t consider those who got married with Kibrislis as settlers
The classic definition of a settler (from Turkey) is someone who came with his wife in Cyprus got free GC house and free GC lands to work as farmer. It doesn’t matter if it happened 40 years ago, or yesterday. His is still a settler on lands he was never entitled to.
The story gets different for the children born here. The children become citizens (I think when they become 18) automatically by international human rights laws.

Imo the problem with the settlers is the fault of the Kibrisli leadership and Turkey. They themselves should solve it between them and have a complete plan ready to be implemented BEFORE the voting of whatever agreement. Only after they do that they should come to the Kypreoi to discuss the last parts of it and then the remaining issues of the Cyprob.

You are saying let’s draw a line according to some criteria. Well that’s acceptable too although it sets it as a negotiating issue whereas should not be. The idea is good as long as the two sides agree on it and implement it before the voting of any solution, including complete lists of names of those who will leave and those who will stay . Also including guarantees as to who is going to pay the money for their welfare and housing either they stay or they leave.
So far however the Kibrisli side does not even accept to discuss it

[Maximus]

Its definitely not a Turkish word.

What do you think we are not compromising on please be specific, give exactly what makes you oppose a solution under a BBF?

A compromise from your side is to accept your minority status in a democracy and to return everything to its rightful owners and demand Turkey leaves, with her settlers.

[Maximus]

and coming in by wire with maximalist demands

Levent, publisher of the pro-peace Afrika newspaper, stated he was in favour of the return of all refugees to their homes, the establishment of a unitary state, the withdrawal of settlers and the departure of the occupation army, as well as of all foreign troops and the closure of foreign military bases on the island.
“Settlement is a war crime and Turkey must be called to account and be tried for it,” said Levent.
http://cyprus-mail.com/2014/04/10/afrik ... n-for-mep/

[repulsewarrior]

...hope he wins his seat.

[Viewpoint]

How many foreigners do yo u have working in tourism in the South? the opening of Maras, will also be a boost, after a solution the ecomnomy will improve in the North therefore providing jobs, we will probably need more workers. you are looking at if form the angle of lets get rid of these people by making as many excuses as possible. Pyro do you accept to send back all those you made citizens after 1974 and all your foreign workers?

With all this unemployment around we still have some Romanians, Bulgarians etc. But they are EU citizens we didn’t bring them here by choice. Furthermore they have no voting power, no free donation of properties. Most of them leave Cyprus after they make some money. Absolutely no change of demographics, they are only a small portion of our population. They are NOT settlers.

Lets understand what you think is a settler? children born here? those married to TCs, their children? 80yo people? there has to a line drawn and your leaders understand this thats why a figure has been produced.

No I don’t consider those who got married with Kibrislis as settlers
The classic definition of a settler (from Turkey) is someone who came with his wife in Cyprus got free GC house and free GC lands to work as farmer. It doesn’t matter if it happened 40 years ago, or yesterday. His is still a settler on lands he was never entitled to.
The story gets different for the children born here. The children become citizens (I think when they become 18) automatically by international human rights laws.

Imo the problem with the settlers is the fault of the Kibrisli leadership and Turkey. They themselves should solve it between them and have a complete plan ready to be implemented BEFORE the voting of whatever agreement. Only after they do that they should come to the Kypreoi to discuss the last parts of it and then the remaining issues of the Cyprob.

You are saying let’s draw a line according to some criteria. Well that’s acceptable too although it sets it as a negotiating issue whereas should not be. The idea is good as long as the two sides agree on it and implement it before the voting of any solution, including complete lists of names of those who will leave and those who will stay . Also including guarantees as to who is going to pay the money for their welfare and housing either they stay or they leave.
So far however the Kibrisli side does not even accept to discuss it

Who are all these far eastern people we see down Ledra Street, there are more of them than you peopl, where do they work, we are talking 50,000 to 100.000 people here they can easily be absorbed all over the island once a solution is found. Your being very optimistic about us taking the lead and taking measures to send anyone back. I agree that people who were given TRNC citizenship lets after the 2000 should be revoked and turned in to residency/work permits so the authorities can decide if they stay or go. The right to property being used in its original state by people on both sides should start to pay rent to the orignal owner and the tenant can be given notice to find alternative accomadation if the property owner wishes to take this route. People should also be gven the opportunity to opt for a cash payment or alternative available property ie exchanged TC land, if there is a desire to solve this issue im sure it can be solved overnight.

[Maximus]

They can have temp work permits to cover a transitional period, start paying rent to the original owner and they are not entitled to any voting rights.

Property, citizenship, residency and voting rights for settlers chapters closed.