Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

This is just another round of the same story.
The settlers issue has to do with their holding GC lands and homes. plus the fact that they changed the demographics.
The old known percentage of 18+82% by the time of the Anan Plan Referendum became 30+70% !!
And I am not exaggerating go back and read the number of votes in 2004.
And it's not only that, settlers hold voting power. Which settler would ever vote yes to a solution knowing he will lose the lands and home he got for free?

Pyro you have shown over the past months that you are more realistic and level headed than the likes of Maxi and B25, these people you call settlers cannot just be disgarded, they have spent the last 40 years of their lives here in Cyprus, those that arrived say 10 years ago can be given residency and work permits if the United Cyprus sees fit and definately no voting rights. But those that were born here married to TCs or have been residing here for 30+ years should be viewed differently. You to have Pontian Greeks that have been granted citizenship, will you be sending them back to where they came from ? This is not a humanistic approach. As to the GCs concerns about their properties being given to these "settlers" this should be a separate issue and I propose that they either pay rent or are given time to vacate the property according to the GCs request.

GCs appear to have not understood that in 1974 Cyprus changed forever.

[Maximus]

They get temporary work permits,

Property ownership gets transferred back to the original owner and they start paying rent to the original owner.

No citizenship or voting rights permissible.

[DT.]

If the property rights are reinstated to the original owners then if the politicians don't solve the mess with the settlers the economy will. If there's a demand for labour for these people then some of them will choose to stay. The issue is that in a bad economy the citizens of a country will first attempt to drop their income expectations and then migrate if no luck. The middle class will downgrade to more blue collar work. If the blue collar employment has been taken up by people willing to work for less money then that middle class will look for work abroad.

With a predominantly working class demographic such as the settlers from turkey the pain will be felt by the tc's first. Being the majority and owning more businesses, the GC's will employ more settlers than tc's for their businesses.

Don't be surprised if the tc's end up becoming the biggest xenophobes on the island after a solution primarily targeting the settlers.

[Viewpoint]

If the property rights are reinstated to the original owners then if the politicians don't solve the mess with the settlers the economy will. If there's a demand for labour for these people then some of them will choose to stay. The issue is that in a bad economy the citizens of a country will first attempt to drop their income expectations and then migrate if no luck. The middle class will downgrade to more blue collar work. If the blue collar employment has been taken up by people willing to work for less money then that middle class will look for work abroad.

With a predominantly working class demographic such as the settlers from turkey the pain will be felt by the tc's first. Being the majority and owning more businesses, the GC's will employ more settlers than tc's for their businesses.

Don't be surprised if the tc's end up becoming the biggest xenophobes on the island after a solution primarily targeting the settlers.

Presumptions can be made but reality is always very different, we are willing to take that chance, why are the GCs so afraid of these people even when its clear that property rights will be reinstated?

[Pyrpolizer]

Continuing my thoughts on the matter of settlers which I personally think can stand alone as a huge a problem of equal proportion as the Cyprus problem itself:
I don't blame the settlers as human beings. I don't even blame the vast majority of Kibrislis who were demolishing GC houses so that no more settlers would come and live here. I blame the Kibrisli leadership and Turkey who up until 2003 were doing everything possible to embed partition. It is only a bit before that the KIbrislis revolted against Denktash demanding a solution. Then we had that frenzy with the massive sales of Kypreoi refugee lands to carpetbaggers... When did the Kibrisli leadership or Turkey ever stopped cementing partition??

And then they say they want a solution. What kind of solution do they want? That which will load on the Kypreoi all their wrong doings? If they are honest in their intentions in wanting a solution they should of try and fix their own wrong doings before they even asked the Kypreoi to negotiate with them. This means the Kibrisli leadership should have ALREADY discussed the settlers issue with Turkey, and have found a solution about them. And then come to the Kypreoi and face them straight in the eye and say "I am honest I want a solution and I don't want to load on you all my faults and wrong doings, I don't want to change the demographics on your expense. These are the names of those I can't send back, these are the costs for their rehousing in Cyprus and this is an official binding letter from Turkey that she will pay the costs involved."

I am very sorry to say I am not seeing any honesty at all from the Kibrisli leadership regarding this matter.
They do continue giving citizenship to settlers and settlers don't miss a chance to occupy whatever properties they find empty.

[DT.]

If the property rights are reinstated to the original owners then if the politicians don't solve the mess with the settlers the economy will. If there's a demand for labour for these people then some of them will choose to stay. The issue is that in a bad economy the citizens of a country will first attempt to drop their income expectations and then migrate if no luck. The middle class will downgrade to more blue collar work. If the blue collar employment has been taken up by people willing to work for less money then that middle class will look for work abroad.

With a predominantly working class demographic such as the settlers from turkey the pain will be felt by the tc's first. Being the majority and owning more businesses, the GC's will employ more settlers than tc's for their businesses.

Don't be surprised if the tc's end up becoming the biggest xenophobes on the island after a solution primarily targeting the settlers.

Presumptions can be made but reality is always very different, we are willing to take that chance, why are the GCs so afraid of these people even when its clear that property rights will be reinstated?

If the property rights were clearly to be reinstated then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Your negotiator the other day said not even Morphou will be given back.

[Viewpoint]

Continuing my thoughts on the matter of settlers which I personally think can stand alone as a huge a problem of equal proportion as the Cyprus problem itself:
I don't blame the settlers as human beings. I don't even blame the vast majority of Kibrislis who were demolishing GC houses so that no more settlers would come and live here. I blame the Kibrisli leadership and Turkey who up until 2003 were doing everything possible to embed partition. It is only a bit before that the KIbrislis revolted against Denktash demanding a solution. Then we had that frenzy with the massive sales of Kypreoi refugee lands to carpetbaggers... When did the Kibrisli leadership or Turkey ever stopped cementing partition??

And then they say they want a solution. What kind of solution do they want? That which will load on the Kypreoi all their wrong doings? If they are honest in their intentions in wanting a solution they should of try and fix their own wrong doings before they even asked the Kypreoi to negotiate with them. This means the Kibrisli leadership should have ALREADY discussed the settlers issue with Turkey, and have found a solution about them. And then come to the Kypreoi and face them straight in the eye and say "I am honest I want a solution and I don't want to load on you all my faults and wrong doings, I don't want to change the demographics on your expense. These are the names of those I can't send back, these are the costs for their rehousing in Cyprus and this is an official binding letter from Turkey that she will pay the costs involved."

I am very sorry to say I am not seeing any honesty at all from the Kibrisli leadership regarding this matter.
They do continue giving citizenship to settlers and settlers don't miss a chance to occupy whatever properties they find empty.

Hello Pyro there are no empty properties left what are talking about? the retunr of settlers is part and parcel of the big deal, why should we send people back if there is no solution?

[Pyrpolizer]

If the property rights are reinstated to the original owners then if the politicians don't solve the mess with the settlers the economy will. If there's a demand for labour for these people then some of them will choose to stay. The issue is that in a bad economy the citizens of a country will first attempt to drop their income expectations and then migrate if no luck. The middle class will downgrade to more blue collar work. If the blue collar employment has been taken up by people willing to work for less money then that middle class will look for work abroad.

With a predominantly working class demographic such as the settlers from turkey the pain will be felt by the tc's first. Being the majority and owning more businesses, the GC's will employ more settlers than tc's for their businesses.

Don't be surprised if the tc's end up becoming the biggest xenophobes on the island after a solution primarily targeting the settlers.

Presumptions can be made but reality is always very different, we are willing to take that chance, why are the GCs so afraid of these people even when its clear that property rights will be reinstated?

Because their numbers are huge 90K Kibrislis, 150K Settlers, because from one day to another after a solution they will actually be the only ones around without property the vast majority of them of the lower to lowest class, who is going to take care of them nobody has money today, the end result we will be having a huge social problem here. And if we over overcome that crisis there will be another coming that of the demographics, it's not something painless, all rights in a country come from those demographic percentages.
It's one thing to be humane, and another losing your own rights for being humane.

[Viewpoint]

If the property rights are reinstated to the original owners then if the politicians don't solve the mess with the settlers the economy will. If there's a demand for labour for these people then some of them will choose to stay. The issue is that in a bad economy the citizens of a country will first attempt to drop their income expectations and then migrate if no luck. The middle class will downgrade to more blue collar work. If the blue collar employment has been taken up by people willing to work for less money then that middle class will look for work abroad.

With a predominantly working class demographic such as the settlers from turkey the pain will be felt by the tc's first. Being the majority and owning more businesses, the GC's will employ more settlers than tc's for their businesses.

Don't be surprised if the tc's end up becoming the biggest xenophobes on the island after a solution primarily targeting the settlers.

Presumptions can be made but reality is always very different, we are willing to take that chance, why are the GCs so afraid of these people even when its clear that property rights will be reinstated?

If the property rights were clearly to be reinstated then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Your negotiator the other day said not even Morphou will be given back.

We never heard or read such a thing, do you have any credible links?

[Maximus]

Continuing my thoughts on the matter of settlers which I personally think can stand alone as a huge a problem of equal proportion as the Cyprus problem itself:
I don't blame the settlers as human beings. I don't even blame the vast majority of Kibrislis who were demolishing GC houses so that no more settlers would come and live here. I blame the Kibrisli leadership and Turkey who up until 2003 were doing everything possible to embed partition. It is only a bit before that the KIbrislis revolted against Denktash demanding a solution. Then we had that frenzy with the massive sales of Kypreoi refugee lands to carpetbaggers... When did the Kibrisli leadership or Turkey ever stopped cementing partition??

And then they say they want a solution. What kind of solution do they want? That which will load on the Kypreoi all their wrong doings? If they are honest in their intentions in wanting a solution they should of try and fix their own wrong doings before they even asked the Kypreoi to negotiate with them. This means the Kibrisli leadership should have ALREADY discussed the settlers issue with Turkey, and have found a solution about them. And then come to the Kypreoi and face them straight in the eye and say "I am honest I want a solution and I don't want to load on you all my faults and wrong doings, I don't want to change the demographics on your expense. These are the names of those I can't send back, these are the costs for their rehousing in Cyprus and this is an official binding letter from Turkey that she will pay the costs involved."

I am very sorry to say I am not seeing any honesty at all from the Kibrisli leadership regarding this matter.
They do continue giving citizenship to settlers and settlers don't miss a chance to occupy whatever properties they find empty.

Blinding post Pyro, blinding

DT has said it too.

The settlers don't need citizenship or voting rights, just a temporary work permit to cover the rent and a 'transitional period'. The forces of supply and demand can do the rest.