Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Kikapu,

to answer your question there are actually 2 different devices and they work differently. You have Emergency Locator Transmitters which are the same as EPIRB and their signals are tracked by a constellation of SAR Satellites. These do not work underwater. They are manually set off or when there is an inertia trigger such as a major deceleration or crash.

Then you have Underwater Locator Beacons which are activated by inertia or when they detect water. These have to be detected by hydrophone. These are the devices that were detected underwater.

Thanks.

[Pyrpolizer]

Just for the record, for the times ahead that the search will start from scratch all over again:
http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b

On Mar 8th 2014 at about noon local time Vietnamese search personnel reported they have detected an ELT signal about 20nm south of the coast of Ca Mau. Vietnam officials subsequently stated that they have not yet detected flight MH-370.

On Mar 8th 2014 in the afternoon local time an Admiral of the Vietnamese Navy was understood to indicate that the crash site of the aircraft has been located about 130nm south of the Vietnamese Island Tho Chau (110nm southwest of main land Ca Mau), the Navy later said that the admiral only referred to the position of last radio/radar contact with the aircraft, the aircraft has not yet been found.

http://www.thanhniennews.com/society/ma ... 24480.html

Rear Admiral Ngo Van Phat, political commissar of the Fifth Naval Region as saying that the ill-fated airplane may have crashed some 153 nautical miles (300 kilometers) from Tho Chu Island. The island is located 55 nautical miles (102 km) southwest of the famous resort island of Phu Quoc.

The story of the Oil rig worker here: He says he saw the plane in flames some 70 Km west. Problem is his position is 420Km from the ELT position…

http://www.news.com.au/world/oil-rig-wo ... 6853302184


Map showing the positions of the above points of interest.

[Pyrpolizer]

One question that kept spinning in my mind was whether there was a military exercise going on in the region by the time the MH370 had vanished. (8th of March)

I found out that no there wasn’t one, but there was one scheduled for the 10th of March called "the COPE TIGER".
http://www.pacaf.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123403175

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korat_Roya ... Force_Base

Here are some videos that I am sure will get everybody and especially Paphitis very excited






The exercise takes place at the Korat Royal Thai Air Force Base inside Thailand’s mainland about 800 Km away from MH370 last known position.
Fact is that military aircraft should of had been traveling towards the Thai Airbase at least a few days before. Singapore was one of the main participants. Now draw a straight line from Singapore to the Thai Airforce Base and tell me what you see

[Pyrpolizer]

https://malaysiaflyingherald.wordpress. ... ion-issue/

2058 Violations of Malaysia's Airspace!
Hmmm so those guys Singapore and Malaysia have airspace issues !
Very interesting

[Paphitis]

For the last time, it did not take 2 years to find the wreckage of AF447. They knew where it was because they found the debris floating in just ONLY few days along with about 20 bodies, including the captains'. At this point MH370 has ZERO relevance to AF447 because thus far no debris or wreckage has been found....... 1



As for your YouTube video on the model used for ditching.... 2

... And since we were told that the plane had used more fuel that believed and the search area was moved about 600 miles further north, 3

1-->> Just wanted to point out that if the "man made devices" they detected were indeed the black boxes, the MH370 wreckage would already been found. Would they then say the MH370 was easier than the AF447??? Isn't it obvious they are trying to invent excuses as they go along?

2-->> Model testing is not always reliable for hundreds of reasons, especially when doing model testing having to do with liquids or gases.
A true 1:30 model must be made of 1:900 material thickness which in turn would mean the model would be very thin.
Regardless of that assuming the results on video are indicative,then why the 4 other ELTs did not transmit to Sats?

3-->> This is one more joke in the whole story. They presumably used the Doppler effect which by itself tells ONLY 2 things: SPEED and DIRECTION. So did they really get the speeds or did they not? Did they use the Doppler effect or did they not?

Actually no!

There are many physical challenges associated with finding MH370.

It's was never going to be that easy and the authorities have always stated this from day 1.

[Paphitis]

I'm afraid you do not know what you're talking about.

Satellites have atomic clocks which a accurate to a nanosecond and they have to be in order to guide Missiles and Bombs to their target or assist with the navigation of an aircraft such as an RNAV Approach.

Accuracies are within 1m in a military application and 30m for civil applications as the Pentagon factors in errors so that their Satellites can't be used against them.

So yes the technologies exist and that is a well known fact. They actually measure the time a signal takes to reach a satellite. That is what GPS does.

If you are within range of one Satellite you are placed on an arc. If there are 2 Satellites, your position could be along 2 possible intersects. 3 Satellites and your position has been pinpointed.

Hahaha. Actually it's me who first pointed out in this forum that satellites are synchronized to nanoseconds using atomic clocks.And actually it's me who pointed out that this should be the case for Inmarsat.
Unfortunately I later discovered I was wrong
a)The inmarsat satellites were not designed for accurate time measurements because that was not required for their activities.
In fact after they got their data there was a question of having to resynchronize all their systems and satellites and record the time errors they had when they recorded the 7 pings
b)The only time measurements they got were from log files stored in computers that by design record times to the accuracy of about 1 thousand of a second which unfortunately is 10 times bigger than the time required for a signal to reach their satellite when traveling at the speed of light.

NB. And satellites don't have atomic clocks on board. Do some search for Christ sake. They get synchronized (some more often than others) via atomic clocks on ground.

I can't comment on Inmarssat because I do not know, however their clock would be accurate enough to place the aircraft in the Indian Ocean. Also, all ACARS are time stamped and LAT and LONG coordinates are given. Whether they rely on ADS-B or have their own method of triangulation I don't know.

What is known, is that they have compared their data against 2 aircraft, one heading north and another heading south and deduced that MH370 was heading south along the Southern Corridor.

[Paphitis]

For the last time, it did not take 2 years to find the wreckage of AF447. They knew where it was because they found the debris floating in just ONLY few days along with about 20 bodies, including the captains'. At this point MH370 has ZERO relevance to AF447 because thus far no debris or wreckage has been found. Don't confuse floating debris with wreckage at the bottom of the sea. Any MH370 debris found now will have ZERO help in locating the wreckage at the bottom of the sea. If the aircraft sank without breaking up first, then it could be anywhere at the bottom of the sea, “gliding” under the water very slowly for miles until finding it’s resting point.

Of course every accident examined for the purpose of improving airline safety is welcomed and lessons learnt from AF447 are valuable, even if they had not been implemented, like why haven't they already started sending data from the Black Boxes live to satellites for information to be stored on land rather than looking for Black Boxes of AF447 for 2 years at great cost?

I have a question for you, Paphitis. Do the Black Boxes send ping signals ALL the time when the plane is in normal use, or is it activated when the unit's main power supply is cut off and the batteries take over as in the case of a crash? The reason I ask is, if the plane did sink intact, at what point would the Black Boxes start sending ping signals? Is it upon contact with water or if on land, upon when the main power source is cut off?

As for your YouTube video on the model used for ditching, it really does not help how the B-777 would have acted under same conditions, because the module used was something similar to military cargo transporter C-17, which has a flat bottom that is designed in landing on dirt runways, has a high wings unlike the B-777, even though most of the time the engines did get ripped off, and last but not least, the C-17 has a "T" shape tail, which the water did not come close to even getting it wet, unlike the horizontal stabilizers on a B-777 would be in the water along with the wings, which would play a major role in how the whole aircraft would react once making contact with water.

The pilot would have greater chance of ditching the plane at the best possible conditions when under power, but if he was gliding for the ditching, then that would be a whole different ball game altogether. And since we were told that the plane had used more fuel that believed and the search area was moved about 600 miles further north, then one can ONLY deduce from that, that the plane run out of fuel, and that's assuming that the person at the controls would want to stay alive and try and save the plane by making a “Hudson River” landing. But lets say that he did make a perfect intact landing to save himself, then logic would indicate that he would then bail out of the plane by taking the life raft attached to the door and cast himself off from the plane, taking into the account that everyone aboard were dead before the ditching. Then the question arises, as to why no emergency signals such as the EPIRPs were sent from the floating raft when contact is made with water. You see my friend, whichever way you turn, it only raises more questions.

Kikapu,

I suggest you do your research!

The vertical stabilizer debris of AF447 was found floating within days, hence the wreckage was "near-by" on the ocean floor!

AF447-1.jpg

By early afternoon on 1 June, officials with Air France and the French government had already presumed that the aircraft had been lost with no survivors. An Air France spokesperson told L'Express that there was "no hope for survivors",[62][63][64] and French President Nicolas Sarkozy told relatives of the passengers that there was only a minimal chance that anyone survived.[65] On 2 June at 15:20 (UTC), a Brazilian Air Force Embraer R-99A spotted wreckage and signs of oil, possibly jet fuel, strewn along a 5 km (3 mi) band 650 km (400 mi) north-east of Fernando de Noronha Island, near the Saint Peter and Saint Paul Archipelago. The sighted wreckage included an aircraft seat, an orange buoy, a barrel, and "white pieces and electrical conductors".[66][67] Later that day, after meeting with relatives of the Brazilians on the aircraft, Brazilian Defence Minister Nelson Jobim announced that the Air Force believed the wreckage was from Flight 447.[68][69] Brazilian vice-president José Alencar (acting as president since Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva was out of the country) declared three days of official mourning.[69][70]

Also on 2 June, two French Navy vessels, the frigate Ventôse and helicopter-carrier Mistral, were en route to the suspected crash site. Other ships sent to the site included the French research vessel Pourquoi Pas?, equipped with two mini-submarines able to descend to 6,000 m (20,000 ft),[71][72] since the area of the Atlantic in which the aircraft went down was thought to be as deep as 4,700 m (15,400 ft).[73][74]

On 3 June, the first Brazilian Navy ship, the patrol boat Grajaú, reached the area in which the first debris was spotted. The Brazilian Navy sent a total of five ships to the debris site; the frigate Constituição and the corvette Caboclo were scheduled to reach the area on 4 June, the frigate Bosísio on 6 June and the replenishment oiler Almirante Gastão Motta on 7 June.[75][76]

Early on 6 June 2009, five days after Flight 447 disappeared, two male bodies, the first to be recovered from the crashed aircraft, were brought on board the Caboclo[77] along with a seat, a nylon backpack containing a computer and vaccination card and a leather briefcase containing a boarding pass for the Air France flight.[78][79] The following day, 7 June, search crews recovered the Airbus's vertical stabilizer, the first major piece of wreckage to be discovered. Pictures of this part being lifted onto Constituição became a poignant symbol of the loss of the Air France craft.[1][80]

The search and recovery effort reached its peak over the next week or so, as the number of personnel mobilized by the Brazilian military exceeded 1100.[81] Fifteen aircraft (including two helicopters) were devoted to the search mission.[82] The Brazilian Air Force Embraer R99 flew a total of more than 100 hours, and electronically scanned more than a million square kilometers of ocean.[83] Other aircraft involved in the search scanned, visually, 320,000 square kilometres of ocean, and were used to direct Navy vessels involved in the recovery effort.[81]

By 16 June 2009 a total of 50 bodies had been recovered from a wide area of the ocean.[84][85][86] The search teams logged the time and locaton of every find in a database, and the BEA documented the timeline of discoveries in its first interim report.[84][87] The bodies were transported to shore, first by the frigates Constituição and Bosísio to the islands of Fernando de Noronha and thereafter by air to Recife for identification.[86][88][89][90] Pathologists identified all 50 bodies recovered from the crash site, including that of the captain, by using dental records and fingerprints.[91][92][93] On 26 June, the Brazilian Military announced it had ended the search for bodies and debris, having recovered 50[94] bodies and 640 items of debris from the aircraft,[95] with the help of French vessels and French, Spanish and U.S. aircraft.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France ... ab_3103-70

This does NOT equate with finding AF447, sorry.

They found debris and bodies and yet it still took them 2 years to discover the wreckage on the ocean floor. This just highlights the difficulties associated with finding a wreckage 4000m below the surface and MH370 is even harder.

[Paphitis]

Point is the French never got any signals from the black boxes.
But the super experts of MH370 got 4 of them imish.
So if they were right they should of have found the wreckage 20 times faster than the French!!

well, you will have to wait for the preliminary report.

Here is another newsflash for you. The 4 detections were from 2 separate devices so just wait for this to be announced within the said report.

And btw, the same people involved in AF447 are also involved with the search of MH370. Do your research!

[Paphitis]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/former-malaysian-pm-lays-blame-on-boeing-for-mh370-disappearance-20140427-zr0cz.html

“The loss of the plane is due to the makers, Boeing. How can Boeing produce a plane that is so easily disabled?” he said.
.....
“Boeing must accept responsibility for building an aircraft that can disappear in mid-air so completely,” he said....

Of course the guy just ASSUMES the plane was disabled and then disappeared.
While at the same time his own Government is not even sure whether the plane they got on radar en route to the west and north west was MH370...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... er-3219331

Despite admitting an aircraft was detected, the Malaysian authorities say they do not know for certain whether or not it was the missing Malaysia Airways jet.

Assuming Paphitis will not jump up from his chair hitting the ceiling let me for the record point out that one of the initial searches was based on the assumption that the plane either crashed or shot down in the Gulf of Thailand.

Don't worry, I will not jump up and down hitting the ceiling. There is good reason why Transponders and ADS-B can be disabled. In fact Transponders require a code, and the pilots must be able to SQUAWK that code in order for SSR Radar to interrogate the aircraft's flight number and data. If the pilots have the wrong code, then the system falls apart. They also use pre-determined codes to notify emergencies such as Hijacking in a discreet manner.

And in order to change the code, the Transponder must be put in SBY Mode, otherwise the SSR Radar will cycle through thousands of codes and go ballistic.

These things are determined by the regulator and there is nothing that sets apart a Boeing aircraft to an Airbus. In fact both use the same systems on board from firms such as Honeywell and Raytheon.

[Paphitis]

Kikapu,

to answer your question there are actually 2 different devices and they work differently. You have Emergency Locator Transmitters which are the same as EPIRB and their signals are tracked by a constellation of SAR Satellites. These do not work underwater. They are manually set off or when there is an inertia trigger such as a major deceleration or crash.

Then you have Underwater Locator Beacons which are activated by inertia or when they detect water. These have to be detected by hydrophone. These are the devices that were detected underwater.

Thanks.

Did this clarify ANYTHING for you?

Perhaps rule out a Land Crash?