Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

Let's not mess Cyprus in this, we might be a small country but we are at least smart enough to look into legal books and decide what to do.Cyprus would NEVER declare the plane crashed into some ocean and conclude that all passengers are dead without concrete evidence.
If one of her planes went missing and absolutely no country has clues or evidence as to where it is, Cyprus would simply go by the book, declare it missing, and I think within 30(?) days by international law, everybody is assumed dead and the relatives get compensated by insurance companies.
We wouldn't play it Gods, and we wouldn't draw conclusions that we couldn't support.

Sorry Pyro but if Cyprus or Greece were caught up in this in place of Malaysia, it would have been a debacle.

The biggest shame in MH370 is how Malaysia didn't hand over the entire operation to Australia from day 1. That was a big mistake!

Put it this way. I don't believe there are many countries in the world that would of come out of situation similar to this unscathed. So let's not be too harsh on the Malaysians either.

Perhaps only a handful of countries have the resources and ability to handle things like this.

You still want to underestimate Cyprus. I already told you what Cyprus would do. Why on earth that would be a debacle? When an aeroplane goes missing and you can't find it, you just admit your inability to find it. Simple.

And I am not trying to be harsh on the Malaysians-one moth ago I didn't even know where this country is on the map- why should i intend to be harsh on them?
It's just that this case smells so bad from the very beginning that allows me enough reasons to suspect some other Country (most probably the US of A ) have their finger in.

[Paphitis]

Let's not mess Cyprus in this, we might be a small country but we are at least smart enough to look into legal books and decide what to do.Cyprus would NEVER declare the plane crashed into some ocean and conclude that all passengers are dead without concrete evidence.
If one of her planes went missing and absolutely no country has clues or evidence as to where it is, Cyprus would simply go by the book, declare it missing, and I think within 30(?) days by international law, everybody is assumed dead and the relatives get compensated by insurance companies.
We wouldn't play it Gods, and we wouldn't draw conclusions that we couldn't support.

Sorry Pyro but if Cyprus or Greece were caught up in this in place of Malaysia, it would have been a debacle.

The biggest shame in MH370 is how Malaysia didn't hand over the entire operation to Australia from day 1. That was a big mistake!

Put it this way. I don't believe there are many countries in the world that would of come out of situation similar to this unscathed. So let's not be too harsh on the Malaysians either.

Perhaps only a handful of countries have the resources and ability to handle things like this.

You still want to underestimate Cyprus. I already told you what Cyprus would do. Why on earth that would be a debacle? When an aeroplane goes missing and you can't find it, you just admit your inability to find it. Simple.

And I am not trying to be harsh on the Malaysians-one moth ago I didn't even know where this country is on the map- why should i intend to be harsh on them?
It's just that this case smells so bad from the very beginning that allows me enough reasons to suspect some other Country (most probably the US of A ) have their finger in.

Cyprus has pretty much the same legislation as Malaysia. Both are signatories to ICAO!

In Cyprus, the Civil Aviation Department would exercise complete jurisdiction. Other courts can't interfere with the process.

Crash Investigators have to report to the regulator, not the relatives.

I don't underestimate Cyprus at all. They would quickly find themselves out of their depth which is understandable and would hopefully ask for assistance from other countries very quickly. One if those countries would more than likely be the US of A. I am just realistic.

I don't believe the Americans are involved in this at all. Poor buggers can't take a break.

[Pyrpolizer]

I also like seeing the ADF doing a good job. The world is really noticing their professionalism and they have done a great job.

Whether they find it or not, I don't believe anyone can find any flaws with the way the Aussies have handled this difficult task.

Even spotting garbage from space is pretty damn impressive. This country never ceases to amaze me. Always they are capable of miracles so don't be too surprised if they find MH370.

No one for a minute said anything negative against the men and women in Australian uniform in performing their jobs. They followed orders and gave it their all. It's the people at the top in the government is where my suspicions are.

And here I will make a prediction, that the Aussies will find the MH370 in pieces right about where they think it is right now in the next few months, but ONLY if indeed it was shot down by the Americans near Diego Garcia. For all we know, the last 4 weeks has been designed to lay the seeds in the minds of everyone that the present search area to be the crash site, and soon, when it is announced that the search mission is over at full scale and it will be scaled back to bare minimum, all of the MH370 collected from another crash site will be brought and dumped to this "crash site", including the Black Boxes, but with a new data written over the old one, indicating the new crash site as the ONLY crash site. This still won't explain what happened in the air an hour after the MH370 took off from KL and then diverted to heading South West.

I also believe the Australian Government has been very sincere at all levels and always willing to throw a massive amount of money and resources to the effort. They have worked very well with some 26 other countries that have contributed in some way.

Now, if MH370 was shot down, then clues will be found within the FDR. Surely they would not want to find it.

I also will go on record and state that I believe the Australians are very close to MH370. I say this because I personally believe they have detected the ELTs of the Black Box. I don't believe these sounds can be accurately duplicated. But, they are still a long way from finding MH370 some 4500m below the ocean. There is also a small chance that the detections were from another source so don't take this for a given.

The search is still extremely difficult. And if they find MH370, retrieval is also going to be a massive challenge but it is achievable!

Just a small correction here:
The sounds received were not accurate on the first place. They were if my memory is correct 33.2Khz instead of the expected 37.5 Khz.Try setting your radio a few 0.5Khz away from any station you won't hear anything. Regardless of that we can assume they came from the right device and all that distortion id due to the ocean.
However there are many devices that produce exactly the same sounds. I even posted the link of a company that sells identical beacons to boeing.
The specifications are the exactly the same: 37,5 Khz,pinging 0.9 times per second, and output signal at 165 db.

The guy who did the search on the titanic (?) said he wouldn't trust the acoustics. They used to place acoustic beacons on their findings he said, they knew exactly where their findings were, and the next day they couldn't hear anything or the receiver was guiding them in the wrong direction.

Also have a look here: The acoustics have the tendency of bending 90 degrees before they come to surface and travel as much as 17 Km before they come to surface. (LOL i lost the link-need to find it later if you are interested)

[Paphitis]

I also like seeing the ADF doing a good job. The world is really noticing their professionalism and they have done a great job.

Whether they find it or not, I don't believe anyone can find any flaws with the way the Aussies have handled this difficult task.

Even spotting garbage from space is pretty damn impressive. This country never ceases to amaze me. Always they are capable of miracles so don't be too surprised if they find MH370.

No one for a minute said anything negative against the men and women in Australian uniform in performing their jobs. They followed orders and gave it their all. It's the people at the top in the government is where my suspicions are.

And here I will make a prediction, that the Aussies will find the MH370 in pieces right about where they think it is right now in the next few months, but ONLY if indeed it was shot down by the Americans near Diego Garcia. For all we know, the last 4 weeks has been designed to lay the seeds in the minds of everyone that the present search area to be the crash site, and soon, when it is announced that the search mission is over at full scale and it will be scaled back to bare minimum, all of the MH370 collected from another crash site will be brought and dumped to this "crash site", including the Black Boxes, but with a new data written over the old one, indicating the new crash site as the ONLY crash site. This still won't explain what happened in the air an hour after the MH370 took off from KL and then diverted to heading South West.

I also believe the Australian Government has been very sincere at all levels and always willing to throw a massive amount of money and resources to the effort. They have worked very well with some 26 other countries that have contributed in some way.

Now, if MH370 was shot down, then clues will be found within the FDR. Surely they would not want to find it.

I also will go on record and state that I believe the Australians are very close to MH370. I say this because I personally believe they have detected the ELTs of the Black Box. I don't believe these sounds can be accurately duplicated. But, they are still a long way from finding MH370 some 4500m below the ocean. There is also a small chance that the detections were from another source so don't take this for a given.

The search is still extremely difficult. And if they find MH370, retrieval is also going to be a massive challenge but it is achievable!

Just a small correction here:
The sounds received were not accurate on the first place. They were if my memory is correct 33.2Khz instead of the expected 37.5 Khz.Try setting your radio a few 0.5Khz away from any station you won't hear anything. Regardless of that we can assume they came from the right device and all that distortion id due to the ocean.
However there are many devices that produce exactly the same sounds. I even posted the link of a company that sells identical beacons to boeing.
The specifications are the exactly the same: 37,5 Khz,pinging 0.9 times per second, and output signal at 165 db.

The guy who did the search on the titanic (?) said he wouldn't trust the acoustics. They used to place acoustic beacons on their findings he said, they knew exactly where their findings were, and the next day they couldn't hear anything or the receiver was guiding them in the wrong direction.

Also have a look here: The acoustics have the tendency of bending 90 degrees before they come to surface and travel as much as 17 Km before they come to surface. (LOL i lost the link-need to find it later if you are interested)

You mean 3.5Khz.

The frequency changes as the batteries fade out. In fact that was part of the criteria used to determine that the batteries were on their way out.

The detection at 3.3Khz was deemed to be consistent with that of the Black Box.

And yes, the water and its salinity can bend and refract the signal. They know this. What it does tell them however is that they are close to a man made source which is consistent with a Black Box.

[GreekIslandGirl]

I'm deeply concerned that they are just going through the motions.

(i) The excitement over satellite-spotted debris was easily shown to be a rubbishy lead. Fine. Optimistic!

(ii) The broohaha over the oil find was exactly that - broohaha - because they were never going to be able to prove it was from the missing plane in the first place. They could ONLY prove that it wasn't. Because they knew this, they bought time and took 2 days when they would have had the results in less than 2 hours. Misleadingly Optimistic!

(iii) Given all the other incredible mistakes so far, I am deeply sceptical about the need to keep up optimism based on the mystery "pings" reported, conveniently, just prior to the expected end-life of the batteries such that they could NEVER be verified by others/later. And of course, there is no PHYSICAL evidence for these pings for anyone to scrutinise other than the ridiculous noise-signal scribble-charts.

Furthermore, the ship that was supposed to have detected these "pings" was reported as having a detection range of 1.8Km ( 1.12miles or 5,900feet).

The Ocean Shield is dragging a pinger locator at a depth of 1.9 miles. It is designed to detect signals at a range of 1.12 miles, meaning it would need to be almost on top of the recorders to detect them if they were on the ocean floor, which is about 2.8 miles deep.

BUT, they have since sent drone-subs down and we know now that the depth of the ocean in that region is in EXCESS of 4.5Km. So they never could detect genuine black-box-pings from a sunken plane at such an unknown depth, right?

- The only current lead, the ping-detection story, is full of holes.

http://nypost.com/2014/04/08/hope-extin ... box-pings/

[Pyrpolizer]

I also like seeing the ADF doing a good job. The world is really noticing their professionalism and they have done a great job.

Whether they find it or not, I don't believe anyone can find any flaws with the way the Aussies have handled this difficult task.

Even spotting garbage from space is pretty damn impressive. This country never ceases to amaze me. Always they are capable of miracles so don't be too surprised if they find MH370.

No one for a minute said anything negative against the men and women in Australian uniform in performing their jobs. They followed orders and gave it their all. It's the people at the top in the government is where my suspicions are.

And here I will make a prediction, that the Aussies will find the MH370 in pieces right about where they think it is right now in the next few months, but ONLY if indeed it was shot down by the Americans near Diego Garcia. For all we know, the last 4 weeks has been designed to lay the seeds in the minds of everyone that the present search area to be the crash site, and soon, when it is announced that the search mission is over at full scale and it will be scaled back to bare minimum, all of the MH370 collected from another crash site will be brought and dumped to this "crash site", including the Black Boxes, but with a new data written over the old one, indicating the new crash site as the ONLY crash site. This still won't explain what happened in the air an hour after the MH370 took off from KL and then diverted to heading South West.

I also believe the Australian Government has been very sincere at all levels and always willing to throw a massive amount of money and resources to the effort. They have worked very well with some 26 other countries that have contributed in some way.

Now, if MH370 was shot down, then clues will be found within the FDR. Surely they would not want to find it.

I also will go on record and state that I believe the Australians are very close to MH370. I say this because I personally believe they have detected the ELTs of the Black Box. I don't believe these sounds can be accurately duplicated. But, they are still a long way from finding MH370 some 4500m below the ocean. There is also a small chance that the detections were from another source so don't take this for a given.

The search is still extremely difficult. And if they find MH370, retrieval is also going to be a massive challenge but it is achievable!

Just a small correction here:
The sounds received were not accurate on the first place. They were if my memory is correct 33.2Khz instead of the expected 37.5 Khz.Try setting your radio a few 0.5Khz away from any station you won't hear anything. Regardless of that we can assume they came from the right device and all that distortion id due to the ocean.
However there are many devices that produce exactly the same sounds. I even posted the link of a company that sells identical beacons to boeing.
The specifications are the exactly the same: 37,5 Khz,pinging 0.9 times per second, and output signal at 165 db.

The guy who did the search on the titanic (?) said he wouldn't trust the acoustics. They used to place acoustic beacons on their findings he said, they knew exactly where their findings were, and the next day they couldn't hear anything or the receiver was guiding them in the wrong direction.

Also have a look here: The acoustics have the tendency of bending 90 degrees before they come to surface and travel as much as 17 Km before they come to surface. (LOL i lost the link-need to find it later if you are interested)

You mean 3.5Khz.

The frequency changes as the batteries fade out. In fact that was part of the criteria used to determine that the batteries were on their way out.

The detection at 3.3Khz was deemed to be consistent with that of the Black Box.

And yes, the water and its salinity can bend and refract the signal. They know this. What it does tell them however is that they are close to a man made source which is consistent with a Black Box.

It looks that it pays posting data in this forum rather than keeping them on my desktop and losing them.
Here's the data
cyprus41865-540.html#p784805
32.3 Khz detected compared to 37.5 emitted.
I forgot to mention another critical parameter of the specs .The pitch duration emitted should be 10 milliseconds.
10 ms is a quite sharp and irritating noise. (I have posted samples before). They have not announced the pitch of the signal they received but from first look at their video the "clicks" were very long probably about 100 ms. I did downloaded and measured some of those they were indeed too long.
The power of the signal emitted is about 165 db and we know from facts that it should weaken by 06 db per km-if my memory is correct
So we have 4 parameters

frequency emitted 37.5 Khz
Number of clicks: 1 every 1.1 seconds
Amplitude emitted 165 db
Pitch duration: 10 mili seconds.

They received at 32.3 Khz
Number of clicks: Some at 1.1 seconds some at random
Amplitude received:unknown
Pitch duration received: >100 ms

If it weren't for the number of clicks being consistent (and even for those i cannot be sure because i only counted 3 of them) I would personally scrap the whole thing. But then again, i don't have any advanced software, nor the original signal to test it myself nor the amplitude, I can set a number of reasons that the frequency shifted so much, so in a nutshell I have to accept they got true signals within expected parameters.
Now if those were from the black box or from anything else who knows?

NB.Notice the Original signal at 37.5 Khz is not audible to the human ear. You need specially designed detectors to get it.
To make it audible you need to convert it to below 20 Khz.

[repulsewarrior]

...interesting, thanks guys.

[Pyrpolizer]

Please please stop the assumptions.The data and the analyses themselves will have to be revealed in Court and then you will see how accurate they were. AT BEST they would only prove a certain degree of probability nothing more than that.And if the probability was say 60% you will see what happens.

No they do not!

According to the regulations, the details of the investigation, including all data have to be tabled to the Aviation Regulator in Malaysia. It is up to the regulator to decide if there is a case to answer in court.

There is no court that can bypass the aviation regulator's jurisdiction.

http://www.bfnlaw.com/resources/legal-i ... mh370.html

While the search for the aircraft has been conducted by many nations, in accordance with international law the investigation itself may involve a more limited group. Investigators from the air carrier’s domicile (Malaysia) and that of the aircraft’s and engine manufacturers (United States and England) are certain to be involved in the investigation, with likely assistance from other nations in light of the apparent maritime connection to the accident.

[Pyrpolizer]

I'm deeply concerned that they are just going through the motions.

(i) The excitement over satellite-spotted debris was easily shown to be a rubbishy lead. Fine. Optimistic!

(ii) The broohaha over the oil find was exactly that - broohaha - because they were never going to be able to prove it was from the missing plane in the first place. They could ONLY prove that it wasn't. Because they knew this, they bought time and took 2 days when they would have had the results in less than 2 hours. Misleadingly Optimistic!

(iii) Given all the other incredible mistakes so far, I am deeply sceptical about the need to keep up optimism based on the mystery "pings" reported, conveniently, just prior to the expected end-life of the batteries such that they could NEVER be verified by others/later. And of course, there is no PHYSICAL evidence for these pings for anyone to scrutinise other than the ridiculous noise-signal scribble-charts.

Furthermore, the ship that was supposed to have detected these "pings" was reported as having a detection range of 1.8Km ( 1.12miles or 5,900feet).

The Ocean Shield is dragging a pinger locator at a depth of 1.9 miles. It is designed to detect signals at a range of 1.12 miles, meaning it would need to be almost on top of the recorders to detect them if they were on the ocean floor, which is about 2.8 miles deep.

BUT, they have since sent drone-subs down and we know now that the depth of the ocean in that region is in EXCESS of 4.5Km. So they never could detect genuine black-box-pings from a sunken plane at such an unknown depth, right?

- The only current lead, the ping-detection story, is full of holes.

http://nypost.com/2014/04/08/hope-extin ... box-pings/

BRAVO GIG.

[Flying Horse]

I'm deeply concerned that they are just going through the motions.

(i) The excitement over satellite-spotted debris was easily shown to be a rubbishy lead. Fine. Optimistic!

(ii) The broohaha over the oil find was exactly that - broohaha - because they were never going to be able to prove it was from the missing plane in the first place. They could ONLY prove that it wasn't. Because they knew this, they bought time and took 2 days when they would have had the results in less than 2 hours. Misleadingly Optimistic!

(iii) Given all the other incredible mistakes so far, I am deeply sceptical about the need to keep up optimism based on the mystery "pings" reported, conveniently, just prior to the expected end-life of the batteries such that they could NEVER be verified by others/later. And of course, there is no PHYSICAL evidence for these pings for anyone to scrutinise other than the ridiculous noise-signal scribble-charts.

Furthermore, the ship that was supposed to have detected these "pings" was reported as having a detection range of 1.8Km ( 1.12miles or 5,900feet).

The Ocean Shield is dragging a pinger locator at a depth of 1.9 miles. It is designed to detect signals at a range of 1.12 miles, meaning it would need to be almost on top of the recorders to detect them if they were on the ocean floor, which is about 2.8 miles deep.

BUT, they have since sent drone-subs down and we know now that the depth of the ocean in that region is in EXCESS of 4.5Km. So they never could detect genuine black-box-pings from a sunken plane at such an unknown depth, right?

- The only current lead, the ping-detection story, is full of holes.

http://nypost.com/2014/04/08/hope-extin ... box-pings/

It's like the Paphitis and Pyroliser show in this thread. I felt the need to quote you GiG!

There are a lot of holes everywhere in this mystery......
The biggest one being at the bottom of the deep blue sea, catching fishes for my tea....and no.aeroplane