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[Pyrpolizer]

Then the search party began looking too far south, and meanwhile the debris would be drifting up to 200 kms per day. By now, any surviving debris could be half way across the globe. It could be anywhere. It's not that hard to understand.

I'm sure you meant to say on average 40 Km per day (24 hrs). Sea currents can be anywhere from 0.5 knots to 1.5 knots, averaging at 1.0 kts. Tidal currents can be very high in certain parts of the world, but that’s another subject than normal sea currents. At best, we would sail about 300 Km in a 24hr day.

If we take the 7th pings position and the +-300Km as given, 1that still leaves time and distance traveled by the aircraft after the 7th ping. Lets take the worst-case scenario, that after the 7th ping the aircraft traveled another 59 minutes at 900Km per/hr before crashing into the ocean just before the 8th ping. Add the +-300Km, now you are looking at as much as 1200Km from the 7th ping. But supposing the plane made a directional change after the 7th ping and did not continue flying south but instead flew East, North or West. Now the Area to be searched can be as much as 1,440,000 sq/km from the 7th ping if my calculations are correct. 2

Question. We know the pings from the engines are sent once an hour, but when does the hour start? Is it when the engines are turned on or is there a specific time when the hour start? 3 Secondly, does the pilots know this information? size=150] 4[/size] [In other words, would the pilot of MH370 have known when the 7th ping was sent by the engines so that he can then change course from the 6th and 7th pings, assuming the MH 370 was flying in the same direction between those two pings, of course?

Also, can the pilot physically disconnect the cockpit voice recorder and the data recorder, making the Black Boxes completely useless with no useful information at all if they were ever to be found, other than information left to the point of the cut off. Since other important instruments were turned off, one would expect the same to have been done to the Black Boxes too if it was physically possible, no?

1àI have re-estimate those +- 300Km Kikapu now they are down to +- 181Km. Other factors may increase this error to some degree propably make it +-200 Km.
2à You are not far away in your estimates. That’s why the only chance to find the plane is by accident. All that assuming the whole Inmarsat data is not a fabrication.
3àIt seems from the minute the Engines start they send signals to the satellite. That;s what I understood from their pre-take off data. After the plane gets off they increase in frequency.
The plane took off at 16:41, there were what they call "access requests" and "acknowledgements of user data" at 16:42, 16:43. 16:55 16:56 and at 17:07.
Handshakes 3,4,5 and 6 occured at 1 hour intervals sharp 19:41 20:41 21:41 22:41
Handshake 7 occured 1.5 hours later and ping 8 (the partial handshake 9 minutes after that.
I really don't know the difference between handshakes and "access requests/acknowledgements" and why they did not use all of them. We know that prior to ping/handshake 4 they have used at least 6 data from "access requests/acknowledgements"

4àThe pilots may not know but the satellite does. Look what happenned at 17:07
"17:07 - Last Acknowledged Ground to Air DATA-2 ACARS Message. Link lost at sometime between here and 18:03:41." Also look what else the satellite detected

18:39 - Ground Initiated to Air Telephony Call - Zero Duration (Not Answered)
23:13 - Ground Initiated to Air Telephony Call - Zero Duration (Not Answered)

[Kikapu]

Then the search party began looking too far south, and meanwhile the debris would be drifting up to 200 kms per day. By now, any surviving debris could be half way across the globe. It could be anywhere. It's not that hard to understand.

I'm sure you meant to say on average 40 Km per day (24 hrs). Sea currents can be anywhere from 0.5 knots to 1.5 knots, averaging at 1.0 kts. Tidal currents can be very high in certain parts of the world, but that’s another subject than normal sea currents. At best, we would sail about 300 Km in a 24hr day.

If we take the 7th pings position and the +-300Km as given, 1that still leaves time and distance traveled by the aircraft after the 7th ping. Lets take the worst-case scenario, that after the 7th ping the aircraft traveled another 59 minutes at 900Km per/hr before crashing into the ocean just before the 8th ping. Add the +-300Km, now you are looking at as much as 1200Km from the 7th ping. But supposing the plane made a directional change after the 7th ping and did not continue flying south but instead flew East, North or West. Now the Area to be searched can be as much as 1,440,000 sq/km from the 7th ping if my calculations are correct. 2

Question. We know the pings from the engines are sent once an hour, but when does the hour start? Is it when the engines are turned on or is there a specific time when the hour start? 3 Secondly, does the pilots know this information? size=150] 4[/size] [In other words, would the pilot of MH370 have known when the 7th ping was sent by the engines so that he can then change course from the 6th and 7th pings, assuming the MH 370 was flying in the same direction between those two pings, of course?

Also, can the pilot physically disconnect the cockpit voice recorder and the data recorder, making the Black Boxes completely useless with no useful information at all if they were ever to be found, other than information left to the point of the cut off. Since other important instruments were turned off, one would expect the same to have been done to the Black Boxes too if it was physically possible, no?

1àI have re-estimate those +- 300Km Kikapu now they are down to +- 181Km. Other factors may increase this error to some degree propably make it +-200 Km.
2à You are not far away in your estimates. That’s why the only chance to find the plane is by accident. All that assuming the whole Inmarsat data is not a fabrication.
3àIt seems from the minute the Engines start they send signals to the satellite. That;s what I understood from their pre-take off data. After the plane gets off they increase in frequency.
The plane took off at 16:41, there were what they call "access requests" and "acknowledgements of user data" at 16:42, 16:43. 16:55 16:56 and at 17:07.
Handshakes 3,4,5 and 6 occured at 1 hour intervals sharp 19:41 20:41 21:41 22:41
Handshake 7 occured 1.5 hours later and ping 8 (the partial handshake 9 minutes after that.
I really don't know the difference between handshakes and "access requests/acknowledgements" and why they did not use all of them. We know that prior to ping/handshake 4 they have used at least 6 data from "access requests/acknowledgements"

4àThe pilots may not know but the satellite does. Look what happenned at 17:07
"17:07 - Last Acknowledged Ground to Air DATA-2 ACARS Message. Link lost at sometime between here and 18:03:41." Also look what else the satellite detected

18:39 - Ground Initiated to Air Telephony Call - Zero Duration (Not Answered)
23:13 - Ground Initiated to Air Telephony Call - Zero Duration (Not Answered)

Actually, the 1,440,000 sq/km I have given above is way off. That was the calculation based on the aircraft going ONLY in another direction other than the south, but since we don't know, it could have gone in any direction other than south which makes the haystack much much bigger. After re-thinking, it should be somewhere close to 4,674,000 sq/km at max, because if the plane made a directional change after the 7th ping and flew for another 59 minutes in any other direction but the south at 900Km per hour (over the ground speed) and adding the new figure +-181Km, we would get this new figure of possible crash site to search.

Yes Pyro, finding the MH370 can ONLY be by accident at this point, unless there are other know information out there we don't know about!

[Paphitis]

Then the search party began looking too far south, and meanwhile the debris would be drifting up to 200 kms per day. By now, any surviving debris could be half way across the globe. It could be anywhere. It's not that hard to understand.

I'm sure you meant to say on average 40 Km per day (24 hrs). Sea currents can be anywhere from 0.5 knots to 1.5 knots, averaging at 1.0 kts. Tidal currents can be very high in certain parts of the world, but that’s another subject than normal sea currents. At best, we would sail about 300 Km in a 24hr day.

If we take the 7th pings position and the +-300Km as given, 1that still leaves time and distance traveled by the aircraft after the 7th ping. Lets take the worst-case scenario, that after the 7th ping the aircraft traveled another 59 minutes at 900Km per/hr before crashing into the ocean just before the 8th ping. Add the +-300Km, now you are looking at as much as 1200Km from the 7th ping. But supposing the plane made a directional change after the 7th ping and did not continue flying south but instead flew East, North or West. Now the Area to be searched can be as much as 1,440,000 sq/km from the 7th ping if my calculations are correct. 2

Question. We know the pings from the engines are sent once an hour, but when does the hour start? Is it when the engines are turned on or is there a specific time when the hour start? 3 Secondly, does the pilots know this information? size=150] 4[/size] [In other words, would the pilot of MH370 have known when the 7th ping was sent by the engines so that he can then change course from the 6th and 7th pings, assuming the MH 370 was flying in the same direction between those two pings, of course?

Also, can the pilot physically disconnect the cockpit voice recorder and the data recorder, making the Black Boxes completely useless with no useful information at all if they were ever to be found, other than information left to the point of the cut off. Since other important instruments were turned off, one would expect the same to have been done to the Black Boxes too if it was physically possible, no?

1àI have re-estimate those +- 300Km Kikapu now they are down to +- 181Km. Other factors may increase this error to some degree propably make it +-200 Km.
2à You are not far away in your estimates. That’s why the only chance to find the plane is by accident. All that assuming the whole Inmarsat data is not a fabrication.
3àIt seems from the minute the Engines start they send signals to the satellite. That;s what I understood from their pre-take off data. After the plane gets off they increase in frequency.
The plane took off at 16:41, there were what they call "access requests" and "acknowledgements of user data" at 16:42, 16:43. 16:55 16:56 and at 17:07.
Handshakes 3,4,5 and 6 occured at 1 hour intervals sharp 19:41 20:41 21:41 22:41
Handshake 7 occured 1.5 hours later and ping 8 (the partial handshake 9 minutes after that.
I really don't know the difference between handshakes and "access requests/acknowledgements" and why they did not use all of them. We know that prior to ping/handshake 4 they have used at least 6 data from "access requests/acknowledgements"

4àThe pilots may not know but the satellite does. Look what happenned at 17:07
"17:07 - Last Acknowledged Ground to Air DATA-2 ACARS Message. Link lost at sometime between here and 18:03:41." Also look what else the satellite detected

18:39 - Ground Initiated to Air Telephony Call - Zero Duration (Not Answered)
23:13 - Ground Initiated to Air Telephony Call - Zero Duration (Not Answered)

Actually, the 1,440,000 sq/km I have given above is way off. That was the calculation based on the aircraft going ONLY in another direction other than the south, but since we don't know, it could have gone in any direction other than south which makes the haystack much much bigger. After re-thinking, it should be somewhere close to 4,674,000 sq/km at max, because if the plane made a directional change after the 7th ping and flew for another 59 minutes in any other direction but the south at 900Km per hour (over the ground speed) and adding the new figure +-181Km, we would get this new figure of possible crash site to search.

Yes Pyro, finding the MH370 can ONLY be by accident at this point, unless there are other know information out there we don't know about!

They know the aircraft was travelling South because they could calculate this and compare to other aircraft in the area that were Handshaking with the same Satellite. Read the data.

Furthermore, they know how far the aircraft was from the Satellite with each ping placing it on a particular arc.

These are undisputed FACTS!

[Paphitis]

Then the search party began looking too far south, and meanwhile the debris would be drifting up to 200 kms per day. By now, any surviving debris could be half way across the globe. It could be anywhere. It's not that hard to understand.

I'm sure you meant to say on average 40 Km per day (24 hrs). Sea currents can be anywhere from 0.5 knots to 1.5 knots, averaging at 1.0 kts. Tidal currents can be very high in certain parts of the world, but that’s another subject than normal sea currents. At best, we would sail about 300 Km in a 24hr day.

If we take the 7th pings position and the +-300Km as given, 1that still leaves time and distance traveled by the aircraft after the 7th ping. Lets take the worst-case scenario, that after the 7th ping the aircraft traveled another 59 minutes at 900Km per/hr before crashing into the ocean just before the 8th ping. Add the +-300Km, now you are looking at as much as 1200Km from the 7th ping. But supposing the plane made a directional change after the 7th ping and did not continue flying south but instead flew East, North or West. Now the Area to be searched can be as much as 1,440,000 sq/km from the 7th ping if my calculations are correct. 2

Question. We know the pings from the engines are sent once an hour, but when does the hour start? Is it when the engines are turned on or is there a specific time when the hour start? 3 Secondly, does the pilots know this information? size=150] 4[/size] [In other words, would the pilot of MH370 have known when the 7th ping was sent by the engines so that he can then change course from the 6th and 7th pings, assuming the MH 370 was flying in the same direction between those two pings, of course?

Also, can the pilot physically disconnect the cockpit voice recorder and the data recorder, making the Black Boxes completely useless with no useful information at all if they were ever to be found, other than information left to the point of the cut off. Since other important instruments were turned off, one would expect the same to have been done to the Black Boxes too if it was physically possible, no?

1àI have re-estimate those +- 300Km Kikapu now they are down to +- 181Km. Other factors may increase this error to some degree propably make it +-200 Km.
2à You are not far away in your estimates. That’s why the only chance to find the plane is by accident. All that assuming the whole Inmarsat data is not a fabrication.
3àIt seems from the minute the Engines start they send signals to the satellite. That;s what I understood from their pre-take off data. After the plane gets off they increase in frequency.
The plane took off at 16:41, there were what they call "access requests" and "acknowledgements of user data" at 16:42, 16:43. 16:55 16:56 and at 17:07.
Handshakes 3,4,5 and 6 occured at 1 hour intervals sharp 19:41 20:41 21:41 22:41
Handshake 7 occured 1.5 hours later and ping 8 (the partial handshake 9 minutes after that.
I really don't know the difference between handshakes and "access requests/acknowledgements" and why they did not use all of them. We know that prior to ping/handshake 4 they have used at least 6 data from "access requests/acknowledgements"

4àThe pilots may not know but the satellite does. Look what happenned at 17:07
"17:07 - Last Acknowledged Ground to Air DATA-2 ACARS Message. Link lost at sometime between here and 18:03:41." Also look what else the satellite detected

18:39 - Ground Initiated to Air Telephony Call - Zero Duration (Not Answered)
23:13 - Ground Initiated to Air Telephony Call - Zero Duration (Not Answered)

Ground Initiated Air telephony Calls are just radio calls on the Air Band - basically Air Traffic Control Sercices calling for MH370 to respond.

The question is, WHO was calling for MH370?

[Paphitis]

Then the search party began looking too far south, and meanwhile the debris would be drifting up to 200 kms per day. By now, any surviving debris could be half way across the globe. It could be anywhere. It's not that hard to understand.

I'm sure you meant to say on average 40 Km per day (24 hrs). Sea currents can be anywhere from 0.5 knots to 1.5 knots, averaging at 1.0 kts. Tidal currents can be very high in certain parts of the world, but that’s another subject than normal sea currents. At best, we would sail about 300 Km in a 24hr day.

If we take the 7th pings position and the +-300Km as given, 1that still leaves time and distance traveled by the aircraft after the 7th ping. Lets take the worst-case scenario, that after the 7th ping the aircraft traveled another 59 minutes at 900Km per/hr before crashing into the ocean just before the 8th ping. Add the +-300Km, now you are looking at as much as 1200Km from the 7th ping. But supposing the plane made a directional change after the 7th ping and did not continue flying south but instead flew East, North or West. Now the Area to be searched can be as much as 1,440,000 sq/km from the 7th ping if my calculations are correct. 2

Question. We know the pings from the engines are sent once an hour, but when does the hour start? Is it when the engines are turned on or is there a specific time when the hour start? 3 Secondly, does the pilots know this information? size=150] 4[/size] [In other words, would the pilot of MH370 have known when the 7th ping was sent by the engines so that he can then change course from the 6th and 7th pings, assuming the MH 370 was flying in the same direction between those two pings, of course?

Also, can the pilot physically disconnect the cockpit voice recorder and the data recorder, making the Black Boxes completely useless with no useful information at all if they were ever to be found, other than information left to the point of the cut off. Since other important instruments were turned off, one would expect the same to have been done to the Black Boxes too if it was physically possible, no?

1àI have re-estimate those +- 300Km Kikapu now they are down to +- 181Km. Other factors may increase this error to some degree propably make it +-200 Km.
2à You are not far away in your estimates. That’s why the only chance to find the plane is by accident. All that assuming the whole Inmarsat data is not a fabrication.
3àIt seems from the minute the Engines start they send signals to the satellite. That;s what I understood from their pre-take off data. After the plane gets off they increase in frequency.
The plane took off at 16:41, there were what they call "access requests" and "acknowledgements of user data" at 16:42, 16:43. 16:55 16:56 and at 17:07.
Handshakes 3,4,5 and 6 occured at 1 hour intervals sharp 19:41 20:41 21:41 22:41
Handshake 7 occured 1.5 hours later and ping 8 (the partial handshake 9 minutes after that.
I really don't know the difference between handshakes and "access requests/acknowledgements" and why they did not use all of them. We know that prior to ping/handshake 4 they have used at least 6 data from "access requests/acknowledgements"

4àThe pilots may not know but the satellite does. Look what happenned at 17:07
"17:07 - Last Acknowledged Ground to Air DATA-2 ACARS Message. Link lost at sometime between here and 18:03:41." Also look what else the satellite detected

18:39 - Ground Initiated to Air Telephony Call - Zero Duration (Not Answered)
23:13 - Ground Initiated to Air Telephony Call - Zero Duration (Not Answered)

Really sorry but I don't even have a clue as to how you can come up with this figure when Inmarsat make no mention of it at all. The only thing that is a given is the fact that the accuracy from the Inmarsat Satellite is + or - 300m if the clock took measurements to the microsecond which seems to be the case from the data they released.

[Kikapu]

Then the search party began looking too far south, and meanwhile the debris would be drifting up to 200 kms per day. By now, any surviving debris could be half way across the globe. It could be anywhere. It's not that hard to understand.

I'm sure you meant to say on average 40 Km per day (24 hrs). Sea currents can be anywhere from 0.5 knots to 1.5 knots, averaging at 1.0 kts. Tidal currents can be very high in certain parts of the world, but that’s another subject than normal sea currents. At best, we would sail about 300 Km in a 24hr day.

If we take the 7th pings position and the +-300Km as given, 1that still leaves time and distance traveled by the aircraft after the 7th ping. Lets take the worst-case scenario, that after the 7th ping the aircraft traveled another 59 minutes at 900Km per/hr before crashing into the ocean just before the 8th ping. Add the +-300Km, now you are looking at as much as 1200Km from the 7th ping. But supposing the plane made a directional change after the 7th ping and did not continue flying south but instead flew East, North or West. Now the Area to be searched can be as much as 1,440,000 sq/km from the 7th ping if my calculations are correct. 2

Question. We know the pings from the engines are sent once an hour, but when does the hour start? Is it when the engines are turned on or is there a specific time when the hour start? 3 Secondly, does the pilots know this information? size=150] 4[/size] [In other words, would the pilot of MH370 have known when the 7th ping was sent by the engines so that he can then change course from the 6th and 7th pings, assuming the MH 370 was flying in the same direction between those two pings, of course?

Also, can the pilot physically disconnect the cockpit voice recorder and the data recorder, making the Black Boxes completely useless with no useful information at all if they were ever to be found, other than information left to the point of the cut off. Since other important instruments were turned off, one would expect the same to have been done to the Black Boxes too if it was physically possible, no?

1àI have re-estimate those +- 300Km Kikapu now they are down to +- 181Km. Other factors may increase this error to some degree propably make it +-200 Km.
2à You are not far away in your estimates. That’s why the only chance to find the plane is by accident. All that assuming the whole Inmarsat data is not a fabrication.
3àIt seems from the minute the Engines start they send signals to the satellite. That;s what I understood from their pre-take off data. After the plane gets off they increase in frequency.
The plane took off at 16:41, there were what they call "access requests" and "acknowledgements of user data" at 16:42, 16:43. 16:55 16:56 and at 17:07.
Handshakes 3,4,5 and 6 occured at 1 hour intervals sharp 19:41 20:41 21:41 22:41
Handshake 7 occured 1.5 hours later and ping 8 (the partial handshake 9 minutes after that.
I really don't know the difference between handshakes and "access requests/acknowledgements" and why they did not use all of them. We know that prior to ping/handshake 4 they have used at least 6 data from "access requests/acknowledgements"

4àThe pilots may not know but the satellite does. Look what happenned at 17:07
"17:07 - Last Acknowledged Ground to Air DATA-2 ACARS Message. Link lost at sometime between here and 18:03:41." Also look what else the satellite detected

18:39 - Ground Initiated to Air Telephony Call - Zero Duration (Not Answered)
23:13 - Ground Initiated to Air Telephony Call - Zero Duration (Not Answered)

Actually, the 1,440,000 sq/km I have given above is way off. That was the calculation based on the aircraft going ONLY in another direction other than the south, but since we don't know, it could have gone in any direction other than south which makes the haystack much much bigger. After re-thinking, it should be somewhere close to 4,674,000 sq/km at max, because if the plane made a directional change after the 7th ping and flew for another 59 minutes in any other direction but the south at 900Km per hour (over the ground speed) and adding the new figure +-181Km, we would get this new figure of possible crash site to search.

Yes Pyro, finding the MH370 can ONLY be by accident at this point, unless there are other know information out there we don't know about!

They know the aircraft was travelling South because they could calculate this and compare to other aircraft in the area that were Handshaking with the same Satellite. Read the data.

Furthermore, they know how far the aircraft was from the Satellite with each ping placing it on a particular arc.

These are undisputed FACTS!

I'm talking about the MH370 flight direction after the 7th ping. Up to the 7th ping it was going south, but what about after the 7th ping for the next 59 minutes? Do we know for sure which direction the aircraft was travelling after the 7th ping?

[Pyrpolizer]

Really sorry but I don't even have a clue as to how you can come up with this figure when Inmarsat make no mention of it at all. The only thing that is a given is the fact that the accuracy from the Inmarsat Satellite is + or - 300m if the clock took measurements to the microsecond which seems to be the case from the data they released.

I already explained how. I took figures from Inmarsats own data.
Your +- 300m is totally wrong, don't even mention it, just think about it, if it were really +-300 m the plane your be found within days.

[Pyrpolizer]

Ground Initiated Air telephony Calls are just radio calls on the Air Band - basically Air Traffic Control Sercices calling for MH370 to respond.

The question is, WHO was calling for MH370?

It just shows the transmitters attached on the Rolls Royce Engines "cheat" other data other than those concerning the Engines themselves. But yes that's a good question who was calling?

[Paphitis]

I'm talking about the MH370 flight direction after the 7th ping. Up to the 7th ping it was going south, but what about after the 7th ping for the next 59 minutes? Do we know for sure which direction the aircraft was travelling after the 7th ping?

Without external interference the aircraft would maintain a constant Track and the FMC will alter the Heading as required as the winds change in order to maintain that Track.

Furthermore, they are able to work out how much fuel was on board, hence the Flight Time from the 7th ping to Flame Out and the Glide Distance.

If I knew how much fuel they had on board from Kuala Lumpur, I could do the calculations for you assuming FL350, OAT -65 degrees, at M0.80, 0.82 and 0.84!

The only variable after that are the winds. Need the GPWT on the day for that.

[Paphitis]

Ground Initiated Air telephony Calls are just radio calls on the Air Band - basically Air Traffic Control Sercices calling for MH370 to respond.

The question is, WHO was calling for MH370?

It just shows the transmitters attached on the Rolls Royce Engines "cheat" other data other than those concerning the Engines themselves. But yes that's a good question who was calling?

These transmissions are done through SATCOM, and are uploaded onto the Inmarsat Satellite before being downlinked to the relevant authority on that particular frequency.

It means some authority attempted to contact the aircraft and I am guessing it was an Australian AWACS. Contact would be attempted if the aircraft was detected 100%. Again I get back to JORN.

It also explains to me why and how the Australian Military just began looking for MH370 in the Indian Ocean just out of the blue before the Inmarsat data was announced.

http://www.airforce.gov.au/Technology/A ... 1Q4caywtso