Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

I don't have time so you will have to wait for a more detailed response.

Shipping of lithium Batteries is extremely safe because of all the control measures and safety systems in the Cargo Hold. They are not the most dangerous items that can be carried quite legally under the IATA DG Regulations. Radioactive materials, ammunition, explosives, pressurized canisters and other toxic and corrosive substances can be carried provided they do not exceed specific quantities in the same package, the package is of a particular packing group or standard, is labelled with the correct IATA Hazard Labels, displays the UN Number, is consigned properly on the manifest, and the Captain is issued with a NOTOC with Emergency Response Code and showing him/her which cargo hold the material is in. The Lithium would be stored on its own. The Cargo Hold has smoke detectors and automatic foam fire suppressant. Lithium does not explode. It can slowly release heat or energy and start a fire.

This stuff is transported day in day out, and it is done safely. What is dangerous are passengers putting Lithium into their check in bags. This is illegal and can carry a penalty of 7 years in jail if you do it and get caught. It is forbidden because there are no controls or safety measures. For instance, the terminals would not be insulated in insulation tape, and can short circuit if they contact another metallic object. Then they release their heat or energy and a fire can start.

Carrying lithium in carry on bags is fine. People usually have Laptops, Mobile Phones, Cameras, and other electronic devices - a no no in your check in bags.

So you think that's enough and absolutely safe?
Perhaps you should read your own link here
cyprus41865-1060.html#p786645
and tell us what is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING MISSING.

[Pyrpolizer]

On a side note:
There are Cargo planes and passenger planes.
Different rules apply for Hazardous Cargo on each one.
Regulations say that if those rules are followed then the risk is (not zero, it can never be zero) but minimal.
Would you honestly accept to travel with your family on a passenger plane knowing for example that it carries explosives even if those explosives were carried according to the strictest safety rules?

So there come the RIGHTS of the customer.
Imo it is not enough that only the Captain knows the presence of dangerous cargo on his passenger plane.
When a passenger PAYS he has EVERY RIGHT to know if there is dangerous cargo included in the same flight and make his own choice whether s/he wishes to get in there or not.
Personally I would not even take a bus knowing it carries for example explosives.
Therefore Airlines should be forced to ABIDE to this very specific CUSTOMER RIGHT.

[humanist]

The Extra Terestrial people have taken it

[Pyrpolizer]

As well as wondering whether the Boeing 777 was similarly upgraded for such a cargo (never mind the unbelievable Li-tonnage on board), I was also wondering about the severity of the lies and the downplaying of the Li-ion cargo being on board, in the first place, by the government official ...

Well, guess who only a month previously was touting themselves as the main Asian manufacturers for Li-ion batteries for electric vehicles ... yup ... Malaysia!

http://www.theedgemalaysia.com/in-the-e ... icles.html

...aiming to become the regional Lithium hub by 2016.

Malaysia’s Kleptocracy in manufacturing counterfeit and substandard Li-ion batteries with microscopic defects was known a long time ago. However it’s not only Malaysia, China and other Asian countries do it as well.

The dangers arsising from such batteries even concerned the FBI in this report.

https://publicintelligence.net/fbi-coun ... batteries/
https://info.publicintelligence.net/FBI ... teries.pdf
The report includes detailed descriptions of damaged caused on weapons, and photos of injured people.

The FBI has received numerous reports of such batteries, which are not
manufactured with the safety mechanisms of legitimate US branded-batteries, spontaneously
combusting while being used, transported, or stored, resulting in serious injuries to consumers
and damage to tactical equipment and property.
……
China and other countries. Many Chinese manufacturers produce counterfeit and substandard batteries to profit on illegal or substandard products and do not have the manufacturing knowledge, experience, or requirements in place for process controls, quality, safety, or shipping. While there are some reputable Chinese manufacturers and distributors, US brand holders as well as the US Department of Commerce International Trade Administration (ITA) indicate that China is the primary source of counterfeit product investigations and incidents.

[Paphitis]

On a side note:
There are Cargo planes and passenger planes.
Different rules apply for Hazardous Cargo on each one.
Regulations say that if those rules are followed then the risk is (not zero, it can never be zero) but minimal.
Would you honestly accept to travel with your family on a passenger plane knowing for example that it carries explosives even if those explosives were carried according to the strictest safety rules?

So there come the RIGHTS of the customer.
Imo it is not enough that only the Captain knows the presence of dangerous cargo on his passenger plane.
When a passenger PAYS he has EVERY RIGHT to know if there is dangerous cargo included in the same flight and make his own choice whether s/he wishes to get in there or not.
Personally I would not even take a bus knowing it carries for example explosives.
Therefore Airlines should be forced to ABIDE to this very specific CUSTOMER RIGHT.

Done it a hundred times. Been on aircraft with explosives, radioactive materials, Lithium, corrosives, and even with the most venomous snakes on the planet in eskies (they are not a DG).

And I guarantee you, that every flight you have been on has had 1 or more of the above in every flight you have been on. In fact, you would be hard pressed to find a flight without consigned DG. Airlines Madame a lot of money from freight.

I don't have a problem to be honest. My 3 year olds have already been on half a dozen flights already. Much safer it is for them than the family car or going to school.

[Paphitis]

The question needs to be asked! If there was a problem with the Lithium, such as fire, then why didn't they land?

Explosion was ruled out because the last Inmarsat Satellite handshake was some 6 to 7 hours after MH370 vanished from SSR at waypoint IGARI.

There was a scenario on the net (a long time ago-i am sure you remember it because yourself said it is likely that it happened like that) by some pilot who explained the whole matter in a fairly convincing manner.
Just go back in the topic you will find it somewhere.

Your not referring to Captain Goodfellow?

The only scenario I put forward was deliberate depressurization to kill all on board. This is being investigated I can assure you but it is going to be difficult without the Black Box.

A DG incident is not because the aircraft made no attempt to land and because of the controlled inputs in the Straights of Malacca whilst hugging the Indonesian CTR.

[Pyrpolizer]

On a side note:
There are Cargo planes and passenger planes.
Different rules apply for Hazardous Cargo on each one.
Regulations say that if those rules are followed then the risk is (not zero, it can never be zero) but minimal.
Would you honestly accept to travel with your family on a passenger plane knowing for example that it carries explosives even if those explosives were carried according to the strictest safety rules?

So there come the RIGHTS of the customer.
Imo it is not enough that only the Captain knows the presence of dangerous cargo on his passenger plane.
When a passenger PAYS he has EVERY RIGHT to know if there is dangerous cargo included in the same flight and make his own choice whether s/he wishes to get in there or not.
Personally I would not even take a bus knowing it carries for example explosives.
Therefore Airlines should be forced to ABIDE to this very specific CUSTOMER RIGHT.

Done it a hundred times. Been on aircraft with explosives, radioactive materials, Lithium, corrosives, and even with the most venomous snakes on the planet in eskies (they are not a DG).

And I guarantee you, that every flight you have been on has had 1 or more of the above in every flight you have been on. In fact, you would be hard pressed to find a flight without consigned DG. Airlines Madame a lot of money from freight.

I don't have a problem to be honest. My 3 year olds have already been on half a dozen flights already. Much safer it is for them than the family car or going to school.

You might not have a problem but I do, and I am sure thousands of other people do. It's just a matter of time before people claim their RIGHTS.

[Pyrpolizer]

The question needs to be asked! If there was a problem with the Lithium, such as fire, then why didn't they land?

Explosion was ruled out because the last Inmarsat Satellite handshake was some 6 to 7 hours after MH370 vanished from SSR at waypoint IGARI.

There was a scenario on the net (a long time ago-i am sure you remember it because yourself said it is likely that it happened like that) by some pilot who explained the whole matter in a fairly convincing manner.
Just go back in the topic you will find it somewhere.

Your not referring to Captain Goodfellow?

The only scenario I put forward was deliberate depressurization to kill all on board. This is being investigated I can assure you but it is going to be difficult without the Black Box.

A DG incident is not because the aircraft made no attempt to land and because of the controlled inputs in the Straights of Malacca whilst hugging the Indonesian CTR.

Yes that's the one. Not tell me that the "experts" have ruled out the possibility of a fire and I will get a good laugh.

[Pyrpolizer]

I don't have time so you will have to wait for a more detailed response.

Shipping of lithium Batteries is extremely safe because of all the control measures and safety systems in the Cargo Hold. They are not the most dangerous items that can be carried quite legally under the IATA DG Regulations. Radioactive materials, ammunition, explosives, pressurized canisters and other toxic and corrosive substances can be carried provided they do not exceed specific quantities in the same package, the package is of a particular packing group or standard, is labelled with the correct IATA Hazard Labels, displays the UN Number, is consigned properly on the manifest, and the Captain is issued with a NOTOC with Emergency Response Code and showing him/her which cargo hold the material is in. The Lithium would be stored on its own. The Cargo Hold has smoke detectors and automatic foam fire suppressant. Lithium does not explode. It can slowly release heat or energy and start a fire.

This stuff is transported day in day out, and it is done safely. What is dangerous are passengers putting Lithium into their check in bags. This is illegal and can carry a penalty of 7 years in jail if you do it and get caught. It is forbidden because there are no controls or safety measures. For instance, the terminals would not be insulated in insulation tape, and can short circuit if they contact another metallic object. Then they release their heat or energy and a fire can start.

Carrying lithium in carry on bags is fine. People usually have Laptops, Mobile Phones, Cameras, and other electronic devices - a no no in your check in bags.

So you think that's enough and absolutely safe?
Perhaps you should read your own link here
cyprus41865-1060.html#p786645
and tell us what is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING MISSING.

Still waiting... Should we take it for granted that you avoid to answer critical questions?

[Pyrpolizer]

Chin-chin AnguR Houston ambassador.
Now would you care inform the forum whether the Lithium Ion batteries were 463Kg or 2453 Kg, whether they were shipped separately or together with other goods inside a console, and whether you can exclude ANY possibility of a lithium cell catching fire by just following the existing rules of Hazardous airfreight cargo? Do you know under what circumstances a lithium cell can explode or catch fire? Do you know lithium ion cells can short circuit themselves unexpectedly AT ANY TIME and on what chemical phenomenon is that due?

I bet you don’t know any of the above answers.

Perhaps however you could answer GIG’s question of what is the maximum allowable cargo of Lithium Ion batteries on Commercial Airliners.
Also tell us where has ANYONE in this forum said that MAS loaded that Hazardous Cargo by violating the rules.

Now after we finally saw how the REAL route drawn by Inmarsat and other experts looks like, can you finally spot what was the initial PARADOX? Hint: Look here.
cyprus41865-950.html#p786365
And finally, do you know what is the most crucial assumption Inmarsat and the other experts have used in this Doppler effect half science -half pseudo science story, to end up with that route? And how this specific assumption lowers the possibility of their findings been true to something between 0- 50%
I bet you don’t know any of the above answers either, and your usual excuse would be that the experts know better.The problem is, those poor experts had nothing else to hang on, and most probably are not allowed to reveal publicly that the possibility of their findings been true, ranges from zero to 50%. Because without that assumption they would not end up with 128 possible routes, but with millions. Let aside other factors that they never published, concerning the data itself, and the accuracy of their times, all of which combined could of lower that possibility to near zero!!

Still waiting...