Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

According to CNN, Richard Quest stated tonight that the released report on MH370 had very little on facts, basically saying that there were no facts and a lot of unknowns. In another words, our own CF site on MH370 has just as much value on information on MH370 as the released report had. Poor Aussies are spending millions and finding no facts of importance to add to the report, whereas, we have spent no money and have added equal amount of "facts". The only difference is, the Aussies haven't proved anything yet to be correct on what they have done so far, nor have they proved anything from the CF site to be wrong either!

The JACC is not responsible for finding any facts pertaining to the disappearance of MH370. That is a Malaysian Regulatory Matter.

The JACC is tasked with finding the wreckage of MH370 and in particular the FDR and CVR. That is only because MH370 was lost in the Australian SAR zone and therefore are responsible for SAR under international treaties.

Also, the report released a lot of good information that was not know. Or released from beforehand. Freight Manifest, ATC transcripts and a thorough analysis of what happened in the first few critical hours. When I have time, I will provide my own in depth analysis.

The only disappointment is that the Inmarsat Data was not released, probably for valid reasons. If the data would be used by internet warriors to lash out against the International Search Effort, then it's best not to release until in the distant future or after MH370 is found.

[Paphitis]

As for Lithium Ion batteries, I know the regulations inside out because it's my job to know.

Next idiots please!

[Pyrpolizer]

Chin-chin AnguR Houston ambassador.
Now would you care inform the forum whether the Lithium Ion batteries were 463Kg or 2453 Kg, whether they were shipped separately or together with other goods inside a console, and whether you can exclude ANY possibility of a lithium cell catching fire by just following the existing rules of Hazardous airfreight cargo? Do you know under what circumstances a lithium cell can explode or catch fire? Do you know lithium ion cells can short circuit themselves unexpectedly AT ANY TIME and on what chemical phenomenon is that due?

I bet you don’t know any of the above answers.

Perhaps however you could answer GIG’s question of what is the maximum allowable cargo of Lithium Ion batteries on Commercial Airliners.
Also tell us where has ANYONE in this forum said that MAS loaded that Hazardous Cargo by violating the rules.

Now after we finally saw how the REAL route drawn by Inmarsat and other experts looks like, can you finally spot what was the initial PARADOX? Hint: Look here.
cyprus41865-950.html#p786365
And finally, do you know what is the most crucial assumption Inmarsat and the other experts have used in this Doppler effect half science -half pseudo science story, to end up with that route? And how this specific assumption lowers the possibility of their findings been true to something between 0- 50%
I bet you don’t know any of the above answers either, and your usual excuse would be that the experts know better.The problem is, those poor experts had nothing else to hang on, and most probably are not allowed to reveal publicly that the possibility of their findings been true, ranges from zero to 50%. Because without that assumption they would not end up with 128 possible routes, but with millions. Let aside other factors that they never published, concerning the data itself, and the accuracy of their times, all of which combined could of lower that possibility to near zero!!

[GreekIslandGirl]

Does anyone recall the report on a brilliant flash of fire seen in the sky, round about where the plane was last detectable? Has anyone ever seen a tiny speck of Lithium igniting? Brilliant!

[GreekIslandGirl]

Anyway, trying to work out the most likely gases produced by heated Li-ion batteries (which would poison all on board) and seeing if these products could seep into the (non-air tight, presumably) Lithium-ion battery containing plane's black box(es?) and cause it/(them) to malfunction ....

(End-product inhibition?)

[Pyrpolizer]

I am guilty GIG of almost poisoning myself.
I always knew these batteries were dangerous, and I personally never used them without a protection circuit attached to them.The good thing about them is they can deliver huge amounts of current almost instantly. And sometimes you need such power.
Anyway I was with a friend who had some scrap Lithium batteries, and we got that funny idea of short circuiting one of those (actually it was a small lithium polymer battery, not lithium -ion, the former are a bit most dangerous) to see what happens.
We did that from a distance, knowing the possible risks.
Well you won't beleive what kind of flash and burst it did.
Final result, it ate a couple of tiles from my friends backyard and his wife was shouting like hell.

[Paphitis]

I don't have time so you will have to wait for a more detailed response.

Shipping of lithium Batteries is extremely safe because of all the control measures and safety systems in the Cargo Hold. They are not the most dangerous items that can be carried quite legally under the IATA DG Regulations. Radioactive materials, ammunition, explosives, pressurized canisters and other toxic and corrosive substances can be carried provided they do not exceed specific quantities in the same package, the package is of a particular packing group or standard, is labelled with the correct IATA Hazard Labels, displays the UN Number, is consigned properly on the manifest, and the Captain is issued with a NOTOC with Emergency Response Code and showing him/her which cargo hold the material is in. The Lithium would be stored on its own. The Cargo Hold has smoke detectors and automatic foam fire suppressant. Lithium does not explode. It can slowly release heat or energy and start a fire.

This stuff is transported day in day out, and it is done safely. What is dangerous are passengers putting Lithium into their check in bags. This is illegal and can carry a penalty of 7 years in jail if you do it and get caught. It is forbidden because there are no controls or safety measures. For instance, the terminals would not be insulated in insulation tape, and can short circuit if they contact another metallic object. Then they release their heat or energy and a fire can start.

Carrying lithium in carry on bags is fine. People usually have Laptops, Mobile Phones, Cameras, and other electronic devices - a no no in your check in bags.

[Paphitis]

Lithium Ion UN 3480.

http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/ ... 3-V1.1.pdf

[Paphitis]

Anyway, trying to work out the most likely gases produced by heated Li-ion batteries (which would poison all on board) and seeing if these products could seep into the (non-air tight, presumably) Lithium-ion battery containing plane's black box(es?) and cause it/(them) to malfunction ....

(End-product inhibition?)

No gases would be released. Just heat and fire can be released. This would be picked up by the smoke detectors and the foam fire suppressant will automatically activate. The Master Warning Light will illuminate in the Cockpit, and the Engine Instrument Display System(EIDS and EI Crew Alerting System), will indicate that there is FIRE in the relevant Cargo Hold.

The procedure for this is to immediately declare an emergency, descend and divert to the nearest suitable aerodrome. What this means is an aerodrome capable of handling B777. You would also pick an aerodrome with Fire Emergency Response as a minimum.

Always Aviate, Navigate and then Communicate in that order.

[GreekIslandGirl]

I am guilty GIG of almost poisoning myself.
I always knew these batteries were dangerous, and I personally never used them without a protection circuit attached to them.The good thing about them is they can deliver huge amounts of current almost instantly. And sometimes you need such power.
Anyway I was with a friend who had some scrap Lithium batteries, and we got that funny idea of short circuiting one of those (actually it was a small lithium polymer battery, not lithium -ion, the former are a bit most dangerous) to see what happens.
We did that from a distance, knowing the possible risks.
Well you won't beleive what kind of flash and burst it did.
Final result, it ate a couple of tiles from my friends backyard and his wife was shouting like hell.

His wife?!? I read your story thinking you were going to tell me you were little kids when you did this! lol

Anyway, Lithium batteries causing problems to planes has been in the news recently ...

Investigators in Japan are investigating why a lithium-ion battery overheated on a Boeing 787 Dreamliner at Narita airport. Last year Boeing grounded its entire fleet of the next-generation plane after the lithium batteries on two of the aircraft caught fire. (The 787s returned to the air after being fitted with a modified system to protect the aircraft against battery fires.)

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economis ... xplains-19

- . - . I wonder if they bothered with the Boeing 777s ?