Cyprus-Forum.com

[boulio]

vP If you want to rule yourselves within a federal model fine,just don't get in the way of the rest of the country.Also the state that you will be "ruling"will need to be reflected in the numbers of you community and ownership of land .20 % sounds about right.

[Viewpoint]

How many times should we hear the very same arguments that lead to no where? One side saying it was the Kypreoi's fault for wanting Enosis the other side saying it was the Kibrislis' fault for wanting taksim and inviting Turkey here. These are controversial issues that lead to no where. Everything that happened here just followed the natural route of cause and effect.

What we all need to do is just provide that first push to the natural rule of cause and effect so that this time it sets things right for EVERYONE concerned. How will we do that if we blame each other on a daily basis, if we are totally unable to understand why our compatriot is crying, and if we constantly try to gain on his loss?

The blame game continues because both sides fail to recognise the fears of the other and because the minority, perversely in my view, insist on being regarded as an equal community. Turkey screwed that status out of the colonial power in Zurich in order to gain power by proxy on the island for its own neo-Ottoman ambitions.
Today both sides perceive the other as having the upper hand, the Greek Cypriot government in terms of legality and international recognition and the Turkish Cypriots with the “facts on the ground” it has forcibly created. There will never be real peace in Cyprus until the Turkish Cypriots accept a solution that reflects their numbers and so their "share" of the island in terms of governance and territory. As we all know Turkey has emboldened them to demand more and changed the demographics to reinforce its claim.

The impression I get from reading the views of Turkish Cypriot “heroes” is that the Greek Cypriots must be punished permanently for “victimising” the minority pre 1974 – hardly an attitude that will lead to a just settlement!

From the above post you obviously do not believe the TCs have any rights as a community but only as individuals, a minority in a GC majority state. There is a big problem with this viewpoint, you are disregarding internationally accepted agreements that clearly support TCs are not a minority but a 30% valid partner on this island. Off course you want to erase this right, disregard it, throw it in the bin because its does not serve your purpose of enforcing your numerical advantgae to turn us into just another minorty in a GC state. What you have to realize is that 1974 changed Cyprus forever and leaders all over the world including your own have accepted that any solution will be based on a BBF model, thats what being negotiated right now. The current climate backs me up 100% and shows that we are not just a minorty but a partner on this island that cannot just be disregard or ignored, we want to rule ourselves and not be dominated by the GC population. Of course you will have problems understanding this because its not what you want but you must try to understand its called middle ground between enosis and taksim, time you started to realize this as it would help towards creating a climate where we wcould begin to trust build confidence and a future together.

VP, Why don't you read what Jerry wrote and actually digest it.

All you are doing is trying to manufacture a false sense of Cypriotism to fit your Turkish ottoman world view.

This is what created the conflict and what continues to create conflict for the majority of Cypriots, because its false, unworkable and they don't recognize it.

The 'middle ground' is the sea between Cyprus and Turkey, you don't want to be there and I respectfully suggest that Turkey is where its all at for you and people who think like you.

Lets end this stupid and embarrassing problem.

You just havent got that option, you cannot erase our rights or push us to one side, its BBF which appears to be on the way (Gas and US involvement) or nothing. You still havent gotten your head around the fact that you have to share this island on the basis of 2 communities under a BBF, my suggestion to you is try real hard because you may just have to vote on it real soon and if the majority not only on your side but my side say yes you will have to put up with it.

[Viewpoint]

vP If you want to rule yourselves within a federal model fine,just don't get in the way of the rest of the country.Also the state that you will be "ruling"will need to be reflected in the numbers of you community and ownership of land .20 % sounds about right.

When i say rule ourselves thats exactly what i refer to our own state under a BBF structure with a constitution that will protect our rights and not allow one community to dominate the other, do you support this system?

[boulio]

vP If you want to rule yourselves within a federal model fine,just don't get in the way of the rest of the country.Also the state that you will be "ruling"will need to be reflected in the numbers of you community and ownership of land .20 % sounds about right.

When i say rule ourselves thats exactly what i refer to our own state under a BBF structure with a constitution that will protect our rights and not allow one community to dominate the other, do you support this system?

yes with 20% of the island as your state in a bbf with no interference on the federal level by the tc.Basicaly you will have your area to run with affairs that will be pre determined in a agreement.

[B25]

20% is too much, they never owned this much land. More like 18% and that's being generous.

[boulio]

whatever it is let them figure a formula and calcualte the land distribution.

[Viewpoint]

vP If you want to rule yourselves within a federal model fine,just don't get in the way of the rest of the country.Also the state that you will be "ruling"will need to be reflected in the numbers of you community and ownership of land .20 % sounds about right.

When i say rule ourselves thats exactly what i refer to our own state under a BBF structure with a constitution that will protect our rights and not allow one community to dominate the other, do you support this system?

yes with 20% of the island as your state in a bbf with no interference on the federal level by the tc.Basicaly you will have your area to run with affairs that will be pre determined in a agreement.

So we do not have any say at the federal level? why? is that fair when we have formed a partnership through a BBF?

[Viewpoint]

20% is too much, they never owned this much land. More like 18% and that's being generous.

Did you calculate the state owned land pre 1974? %20-27% has always been a ball park area, there must be reasons why both sides would have accepted this figure at all the negotiations.

[boulio]

you absolutly have a say on the federal level you just cant stall things and blackmail as you did in the 1960's,you may block things if a federal law affects your community differently than other communities.Again your region will have many responisbilties assigned to it.

concerning land it was always a ballpark figure 27-29% if all refugees would return.Negoiations are going on currenlty and the turkish red lines are permanent derogations and strict bizonality so if that is the case it drops to 18%

[Viewpoint]

you absolutly have a say on the federal level you just cant stall things and blackmail as you did in the 1960's,you may block things if a federal law affects your community differently than other communities.Again your region will have many responisbilties assigned to it.

concerning land it was always a ballpark figure 27-29% if all refugees would return.Negoiations are going on currenlty and the turkish red lines are permanent derogations and strict bizonality so if that is the case it drops to 18%

Now we are getting somewhere thankyou for giving us a say at federal especially when decision effect us negatively. As for the land lets not get bogged down the negotiators will come up with a figure so theres no point arguing but 18% does not allow for share state owned land before 1974.