Cyprus-Forum.com

[Flying Horse]

As an outsider looking in.....


.....If only there were more like Pyrpoliser.
I know once upon a time, things weren't brilliant in Cyprus, but everyone lived together quite reasonably most of the time. It was the few who forced and escalated problems. I've learnt this over and over again on my travels to find out where our family are, and came from.

If you have mutual respect, it's far easier to debate as adults without hatred. We are all guilty of leg pulling though

I shall be returning to Cyprus in the autumn. Can't wait.

[repulsewarrior]

...and what would be so wrong, if their existed a Greek Constituency?

...what is wrong with a Federal Government which defends our Rights as Individuals, and within this State, another level of governance where Cypriot Constituencies within their National Assemblies, a self-representation of electors as Persons?

Pyrpoliser, have you an answer? why is such a possibility completely ignored?

...what is the reason for a Turkish Constituency to have no equal, but the Republic?

[Pyrpolizer]

I commend your honesty 99% Pyro.

That's too much man!!
I want my 75% back!!
Especially from people who know I can be nasty too if I wanted to

[Pyrpolizer]

...and what would be so wrong, if their existed a Greek Constituency?

...what is wrong with a Federal Government which defends our Rights as Individuals, and within this State, another level of governance where Cypriot Constituencies within their National Assemblies, a self-representation of electors as Persons?

Pyrpoliser, have you an answer? why is such a possibility completely ignored?

...what is the reason for a Turkish Constituency to have no equal, but the Republic?

But..... it's not been ignored.Is it a Federal Government that we are upto isn't it?The levels of governance is the bi communality of the Fed.
The only thing that differs from your proposal is the Bi-zonality in which the majority of Kibrislis will be concentrated in the area they themselves will administrate.
There are other important issues in the Cyprob RW, be it properties, security, settlers and freedoms, the structure of the new Government is the last issue for me personally.

[repulsewarrior]

...if there was a Greek Constituency, it would not be difficult for the Cypriot Constituencies to work out many of the issues you mention, including their own Jurisdictional Territories. as a unanimous body, their conclusions could be forwarded to the State, the Republic for consideration. our desire for Liberty expressed, as Persons, it would be up to us, as Individuals, to secure the Freedom from which these pursuits would remain in harmony.

...and what about the displaced, if they are not the first on this Agenda, what of a Cypriot's humanity? Justice to be seen demands, at least for some that they return as they left. beyond the Individual Rights of all, Constituencies must take their responsibility as Persons to demonstrate their own humility. a return as communities cannot be ignored, and enclaves north and south of the Green Line, as it is drawn today, ends its function as a 'border', repopulates the island in a manner where Cypriots are no longer kept apart artificially, as much as securing for us, as Cypriots and as Communities, the Freedom of Movement, and Association, we expect as Human beings.

truly, if we are willing to evolve as a People (bicommunally), what is the reason for a Greek state? without one there can be, under the circumstances, no Cypriot State, given there are other states, and given that they seek equals.

...what about the Communal Chamber, talking about 63-64?

[Maximus]

cyprus41349-30.html#p783056

There is no such thing as this mountain is yours and this is mine. Or this plain is yours and this is mine. There are also no seas and streams that belong only to the one [of us]. They belong to all of us. All Cypriots…

Why are you angry because the Greek Cypriot side went to Europe and complained about the fact that we destroy Pentadaktylos by excavating? …Do you think that if the Greek Cypriots started now to destroy Troodos like we are doing to Pentadaktylos, would we not react to this? … Do you think that this side is one country and the other side is another country? Even if you dream of this place as two separate states, are you not aware of the fact that this country is one single country?

We are trying to establish a united, common country. We are not sharing the mountains and the plains at the table. We are discussing how all these is common property to all of us. We are not sharing the bridges. We are trying to clean the dirty waters which flow under the bridges”.

Afrika (Mr Senir Levant?) knows what I am talking about.

The republic of Cyprus is going to clean everything up at the republic of Cyprus's expense anyway (minus peace dividend). I don't think they want to be a part of that and they are not planning on incurring expenses to solve the cyprob. I cant see Turkey agreeing to pay Cyprus compensation either.

I am a big fan of keeping things simple. Turkey has to withdraw, while taking her settlers back at her own expense. Cyprus should be a democratic unitary state in the EU, taking care of its citizens, their right to property, freedoms etc, at their own expense.

For the TC's, its a choice out of Turkey or Cyprus and helping to restore and fix it (confidence building measure) as well as respect the rights of the majority. They have to be democratic and civil.

This is reasonable.
cyprus41855-50.html#p783063

Stop going round in circles trying to reinvent the wheel.

[Pyrpolizer]

cyprus41349-30.html#p783056

There is no such thing as this mountain is yours and this is mine. Or this plain is yours and this is mine. There are also no seas and streams that belong only to the one [of us]. They belong to all of us. All Cypriots…

Why are you angry because the Greek Cypriot side went to Europe and complained about the fact that we destroy Pentadaktylos by excavating? …Do you think that if the Greek Cypriots started now to destroy Troodos like we are doing to Pentadaktylos, would we not react to this? … Do you think that this side is one country and the other side is another country? Even if you dream of this place as two separate states, are you not aware of the fact that this country is one single country?

We are trying to establish a united, common country. We are not sharing the mountains and the plains at the table. We are discussing how all these is common property to all of us. We are not sharing the bridges. We are trying to clean the dirty waters which flow under the bridges”.

Afrika (Mr Senir Levant?) knows what I am talking about.

Soooo.... in all this discussion you thought that we were using the word "sharing" with it's meaning of splitting and each one of us taking a piece. Why didn't you clarify this from the beginning?

Well to make a long story short, I don't think my National Dept example could be explained with your meaning of "cutting it in pieces and each one taking a piece". Neither VP's statement of "we are willing to share everything" could be explained like that.
I guess what really bothered you is the bi-zonality bi-commynality of the solution we are upto, but you seem to forget that the type of sharing (as meaning everything belongs to all Cypriots) derives from the Central Federal state.

But then again maybe it was that part with "sharing" the water (that could possibly arrive from Turkey).
At the moment Cyprus is divided, so I cannot see any possibility of sharing anything in the way we would share if Cyprus was United.
In case of a solution I honestly can't see any other way of utilizing whatever water (be it coming from Turkey or from the mountains or from the rain or thru desalination or via recycling) other than through a common water distribution network.Happier now?


LOL so much frustration for nothing....

[Maximus]

cyprus41349-30.html#p783056

There is no such thing as this mountain is yours and this is mine. Or this plain is yours and this is mine. There are also no seas and streams that belong only to the one [of us]. They belong to all of us. All Cypriots…

Why are you angry because the Greek Cypriot side went to Europe and complained about the fact that we destroy Pentadaktylos by excavating? …Do you think that if the Greek Cypriots started now to destroy Troodos like we are doing to Pentadaktylos, would we not react to this? … Do you think that this side is one country and the other side is another country? Even if you dream of this place as two separate states, are you not aware of the fact that this country is one single country?

We are trying to establish a united, common country. We are not sharing the mountains and the plains at the table. We are discussing how all these is common property to all of us. We are not sharing the bridges. We are trying to clean the dirty waters which flow under the bridges”.

Afrika (Mr Senir Levant?) knows what I am talking about.

Soooo.... in all this discussion you thought that we were using the word "sharing" with it's meaning of splitting and each one of us taking a piece. Why didn't you clarify this from the beginning?

Well to make a long story short, I don't think my National Dept example could be explained with your meaning of "cutting it in pieces and each one taking a piece". Neither VP's statement of "we are willing to share everything" could be explained like that.
I guess what really bothered you is the bi-zonality bi-commynality of the solution we are upto, but you seem to forget that the type of sharing (as meaning everything belongs to all Cypriots) derives from the Central Federal state.

LOL so much stress for nothing.

I am not stressing Pyro. Pay attention to what VP says; what bothered me was the snaking

he is willing to share

Water - sell it to us (Turkey)
EU - But not minority status - he is not willing to give you a vote
Gas - Around 30% divided.
Varosha - share it but keeps the north

Furthermore

Territory - the TCs don't need to administrate a large area. They can administer any area and congregate wherever they are administrating. Or the administration can go to the congregations. A floating administration.
Debt - fixing the occupied areas will cost a bomb, especially if you do not resolve the settler and property situation with right of return or ownership. VP & Co are happy to share that with you! Otherwise, adding more debt instead of "rental income" from your property.

VP was stressing.

[Pyrpolizer]

Well, it's upto VP to clarify the above then.
I don't really want to be the lawyer of anyone.
It's one thing to talk about "sharing" under current conditions of division and another to talk about "sharing" within a unified Federal state.
The first one makes no sense, and certainly cannot and WILL not happen.
Anyone who thinks will sell water coming from Turkey to Kypreoi, or share the gas findings on ANY ratio (let aside this ridiculous 30% idea) or share Varoshia while keeping it in control of the occupation forces, is just dreaming.

[Maximus]

Well, it's upto VP to clarify the above then.

Anyone who thinks will sell water coming from Turkey to Kypreoi, or share the gas findings on ANY ratio (let aside this ridiculous 30% idea) or share Varoshia while keeping it on control of the occupation forces, is just dreaming.

Kalimera,

He just wants to derail the tread, blame enosis and your eoka leaders, gain your sympathy, so you can continue to share occupied and divided. He wants to create dirty water to flow under the bridge.

What do you want VP? a 30% share and a veto?