Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Pathitis, Britain is a great place to live. Do I want to see Britain turn into some kind of North Korea. No! Absolutely not. But Britain consumes three times its share of the world's resources. The U.S. consumes five times on average. That means it would take five planets for everyone to consume the same level of resources as the average U.S. American. The problems with capitalism that Marx identified still exist. In fact Marx praised capitalism as a great human achievement in moving beyond feudalism. If you look at how AKEL behaves, it is no more radical than the British Labour Party. Indeed the British Labour Party of 1946 was way more radical. So it is the rhetoric you object to. What is wrong with discussing how we make the next great human achievement? What is wrong with taking into account the global situation rather than restricting ourselves to that of the West which is unsustainable? But the point of my question is not to try and convince you to change your views. Rather I am wondering, if communist views are so well represented in the Cyprus elections, why are they not represented here on this forum? Paphitis, the idea that you are a British agent is crazy, but I also find this forum very strange. What do you do with yourself? How come you are able to spend all day every day on here?

The US and UK are industrialized Nations. People need to work and earn a living.

Who are you comparing them to? Other Industrial economies or North Korea?

My statistics are not comparisons they are shares of the total finite available resources on the planet. Technology opens up new resources, it may be in the future that all countries will be able to have the average consumption level of U.S. Americans. But it is not presently possible. I am "Marxian" as opposed to "Marxist" which means I appreciate Marx without holding his every word as dogma. Marx saw the most developed countries as the vanguard where the next stage of human development would develop first. Lenin challenged this. Cyprus is a beautiful place to live, and AKEL has been an integral part of making it so. You need to take ownership of the dialectic, otherwise you will always be lost in battling for one side.

You mention the US but there are at least a dozen countries that are exactly the same. China too is fast approaching. Why single out the US?

These are the industrialized countries. If you take away their industrial output, then there is not much around to feed the planet's population or provide the energy to keep people warm.

These economies have high disposable incomes, which leads to consumerism, which leads to waste, and so on. It drives the Global Economy.

Look, there is nothing wrong with being Left. Communism however, like fascism is a different beast! You keep talking about Marxism. It just don't work. The collapse of the Soviet Union is testament to that. North Korea will also collapse, the sooner the better!

[tsukoui]

You mention the US but there are at least a dozen countries that are exactly the same. China too is fast approaching. Why single out the US?

This is false, the U.S. uses five times its share, the next highest is Western Europe including Britain which use three times their share and China uses exactly its fair share. i.e. if everyone consumed as much as the average Chinese then there would be enough to go round. I'm not singling out the U.S., it is simply the number one consumer on average by quite some margin, that is the statistic. You want everyone to live like the Western world but it simply is not possible. Now do we want everyone to live like China? This is the real question the world faces.

[Paphitis]

You mention the US but there are at least a dozen countries that are exactly the same. China too is fast approaching. Why single out the US?

This is false, the U.S. uses five times its share, the next highest is Western Europe including Britain which use three times their share and China uses exactly its fair share. i.e. if everyone consumed as much as the average Chinese then there would be enough to go round. I'm not singling out the U.S., it is simply the number one consumer on average by quite some margin, that is the statistic. You want everyone to live like the Western world but it simply is not possible. Now do we want everyone to live like China? This is the real question the world faces.

No it is not false at all. Western Europe (Germany, UK, France, Italy), Australia, Canada, Japan and some other highly developed economies use up just as much of the world's resources as the US does on a per capita basis. China is well on its way and on current projections will have bridged the gap in about 30-50 years time. That's 1.5 Billion people that will enjoy a standard of living similar to Western Europe, North America and Australia.

[tsukoui]

You mention the US but there are at least a dozen countries that are exactly the same. China too is fast approaching. Why single out the US?

This is false, the U.S. uses five times its share, the next highest is Western Europe including Britain which use three times their share and China uses exactly its fair share. i.e. if everyone consumed as much as the average Chinese then there would be enough to go round. I'm not singling out the U.S., it is simply the number one consumer on average by quite some margin, that is the statistic. You want everyone to live like the Western world but it simply is not possible. Now do we want everyone to live like China? This is the real question the world faces.

No it is not false at all. Western Europe (Germany, UK, France, Italy), Australia, Canada, Japan and some other highly developed economies use up just as much of the world's resources as the US does on a per capita basis. China is well on its way and on current projections will have bridged the gap in about 30-50 years time. That's 1.5 Billion people that will enjoy a standard of living similar to Western Europe, North America and Australia.

Paphitis, I'm sorry to have to correct you, you're normally very good with facts, but you are confusing GDP with use of resources. China uses about 35% of the world's resources for a similar percentage of the world's population. The U.S. has 5% of the world's population yet uses about 25% of the world's resources.

[Paphitis]

You mention the US but there are at least a dozen countries that are exactly the same. China too is fast approaching. Why single out the US?

This is false, the U.S. uses five times its share, the next highest is Western Europe including Britain which use three times their share and China uses exactly its fair share. i.e. if everyone consumed as much as the average Chinese then there would be enough to go round. I'm not singling out the U.S., it is simply the number one consumer on average by quite some margin, that is the statistic. You want everyone to live like the Western world but it simply is not possible. Now do we want everyone to live like China? This is the real question the world faces.

No it is not false at all. Western Europe (Germany, UK, France, Italy), Australia, Canada, Japan and some other highly developed economies use up just as much of the world's resources as the US does on a per capita basis. China is well on its way and on current projections will have bridged the gap in about 30-50 years time. That's 1.5 Billion people that will enjoy a standard of living similar to Western Europe, North America and Australia.

Paphitis, I'm sorry to have to correct you, you're normally very good with facts, but you are confusing GDP with use of resources. China uses about 35% of the world's resources for a similar percentage of the world's population. The U.S. has 5% of the world's population yet uses about 25% of the world's resources.

Tsoukoui mou,

I think your comparisons are very flawed.

China is nowhere near as developed as the US is. You are comparing a first world industrial superpower to a third world developing tiger economy. Of course the US uses more resources! It is only natural.

However, compare the US to UK, Germany, Japan, Australia, Canada and other similar industrialized powers and you will find that the US is on par.

In fact, countries like Australia and Germany may even exceed the US!

[Mustiejodu]

Paphitis is 100% correct.

[Get Real!]

Paphitis, I'm sorry to have to correct you, you're normally very good with facts,

Yes, the two of you certainly qualify for the "Factual Einstein Awards"...

[Paphitis]

Paphitis, I'm sorry to have to correct you, you're normally very good with facts,

Yes, the two of you certainly qualify for the "Factual Einstein Awards"...

Cheers!