Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

The misunderstanding stems from the fact that the abbreviated form…

“The right to self-determination”

Leaves out a very important word… NATIONS! Here is the CORRECT title of that declaration:

“The right of Nations to self-determination”

[Pyrpolizer]

The right of self determination is one of the most frequently misunderstood declarations (intentionally or unintentionally) promoted by the UN and has been abused by many separatists all over the world but when you look closely you’ll find that it refers to NATIONS as a whole and not minority groups within those nations!

It refers to NATIONS as a whole when those nations can be clearly defined.This was NOT the case in Cyprus regardless of the fact that the Kypreoi were 78%, others were 4%, and the Kibrislis 18%. Until today there is no definition of what percentage is a minority either!The UN never accepted the Kypreoi's demand for Enosis with Greece. We tried taking our case to the UN back in the 50s and we failed miserably!

In the end we were all called "communities" and gave our consent to form a Sovereign State and we formed the RoC. You have to accept the fact my friend that the Sovereignty of the RoC stems from both the Kypreoi and the Kibrislis as well as the 4% others who chose to belong to the Kypreoi Community.

[erolz66]

The misunderstanding stems from the fact that the abbreviated form…

“The right to self-determination”

Leaves out a very important word… NATIONS! Here is the CORRECT title of that declaration:

“The right of Nations to self-determination”

A more fundamental and blatant perversion of both the letter and the spirit and intent of the right to self determination is hard to imagine.

[GreekIslandGirl]

The UN never accepted the Kypreoi's demand for Enosis with Greece. We tried taking our case to the UN back in the 50s and we failed miserably!

Rubbish!

Defence and Overseas Policy May 1964
...

4. (d) The only two solutions which could bring peace and order in Cyprus are enosis or the establishment of a unitary republic dominated by its Greek Cypriot majority.

5. ... efforts should be concentrated on easing the path to the unitary state, e.g. by providing U.N. safeguards for the minority and by giving financial and other assistance for the resettling of those Turkish Cypriots to whom Cyprus may no longer appear a tolerable home.
Mallinson

This would have happened if Britain didn't suddenly fear for the loss of her SBAs! It was never about whether we were majorities or minorities. It was never about our right to enosis. That was acceptable and knowingly the right solution to peace!

[Get Real!]

The right of self determination is one of the most frequently misunderstood declarations (intentionally or unintentionally) promoted by the UN and has been abused by many separatists all over the world but when you look closely you’ll find that it refers to NATIONS as a whole and not minority groups within those nations!

It refers to NATIONS as a whole when those nations can be clearly defined.This was NOT the case in Cyprus regardless of the fact that the Kypreoi were 78%, others were 4%, and the Kibrislis 18%. Until today there is no definition of what percentage is a minority either!The UN never accepted the Kypreoi's demand for Enosis with Greece. We tried taking our case to the UN back in the 50s and we failed miserably!

In the end we were all called "communities" and gave our consent to form a Sovereign State and we formed the RoC. You have to accept the fact my friend that the Sovereignty of the RoC stems from both the Kypreoi and the Kibrislis as well as the 4% others who chose to belong to the Kypreoi Community.

The Zurich and London agreement was acceptable enough to the UN to the point where Cyprus was made a full UN member in 1960 so your assertion that Cyprus was not politically “clearly defined” is completely groundless as it is not a matter of personal opinion but international law.

If you’re good enough for UN membership then you are a state! Period.

http://www.cyprusun.org/

[Get Real!]

The misunderstanding stems from the fact that the abbreviated form…

“The right to self-determination”

Leaves out a very important word… NATIONS! Here is the CORRECT title of that declaration:

“The right of Nations to self-determination”

A more fundamental and blatant perversion of both the letter and the spirit and intent of the right to self determination is hard to imagine.

You'll have to do better than that and I know you can...

[Pyrpolizer]

The UN never accepted the Kypreoi's demand for Enosis with Greece. We tried taking our case to the UN back in the 50s and we failed miserably!

Rubbish!

Defence and Overseas Policy May 1964
...

4. (d) The only two solutions which could bring peace and order in Cyprus are enosis or the establishment of a unitary republic dominated by its Greek Cypriot majority.

5. ... efforts should be concentrated on easing the path to the unitary state, e.g. by providing U.N. safeguards for the minority and by giving financial and other assistance for the resettling of those Turkish Cypriots to whom Cyprus may no longer appear a tolerable home.
Mallinson

This would have happened if Britain didn't suddenly fear for the loss of her SBAs! It was never about whether we were majorities or minorities. It was never about our right to enosis. That was acceptable and knowingly the right solution to peace!

I will stick to the matter of Sovereignty:
What you said above actually demonstrates how difficult it is for people or groups of peoples to exercise their right to self determination and eventually get Sovereignty. Cyprus at those days was under British SOVEREIGNTY and even Greece and Turkey accepted that status with the treaty of Lausanne. Hence Britain in 1954 successfully managed to block Greece's request to the UN General assembly to consider the application of the Kypreoi for Enosis on the principle of self determination, simply because she had full Sovereignty over Cyprus.. The same thing was repeated until 1956. In 1957 under the pressure of Eokas , Britain yielded and we managed to have the first resolution regarding the matter. And what was that? Did the UN ever accepted the Kypreoi's demand for self determination and Enosis? No, it simply called for a peaceful, democratic and just solution for Cyprus!!!
To get our Sovereignty on Exchange of British colonial rule (and Sovereignty) we finally yielded to giving the British two Sovereign (!?) base areas, and assign Sovereignty for ourselves to the RoC. Do you need to be a rocket scientist to accept the fact that the Sovereignty we assigned to the RoC was not solely coming from the Kypreoi???

[Pyrpolizer]

The right of self determination is one of the most frequently misunderstood declarations (intentionally or unintentionally) promoted by the UN and has been abused by many separatists all over the world but when you look closely you’ll find that it refers to NATIONS as a whole and not minority groups within those nations!

It refers to NATIONS as a whole when those nations can be clearly defined.This was NOT the case in Cyprus regardless of the fact that the Kypreoi were 78%, others were 4%, and the Kibrislis 18%. Until today there is no definition of what percentage is a minority either!The UN never accepted the Kypreoi's demand for Enosis with Greece. We tried taking our case to the UN back in the 50s and we failed miserably!

In the end we were all called "communities" and gave our consent to form a Sovereign State and we formed the RoC. You have to accept the fact my friend that the Sovereignty of the RoC stems from both the Kypreoi and the Kibrislis as well as the 4% others who chose to belong to the Kypreoi Community.

The Zurich and London agreement was acceptable enough to the UN to the point where Cyprus was made a full UN member in 1960 so your assertion that Cyprus was not politically “clearly defined” is completely groundless as it is not a matter of personal opinion but international law.

If you’re good enough for UN membership then you are a state! Period.

http://www.cyprusun.org/

Of course you are. Now tell me why before those agreements we were not good enough for UN membership.See my post above on what happened regarding our UN application in 1957. Is it because we were a clearly defined nation before those agreements, or it it because we were NOT? And what actually made us a clearly defined nation? Our 78% population + 4% others?

[Get Real!]

Of course you are. Now tell me why before those agreements we were not good enough for UN membership.See my post above on what happened regarding our UN application in 1957. Is it because we were a clearly defined nation before those agreements, or it it because we were NOT? And what actually made us a clearly defined nation? Our 78% population + 4% others?

Pyro, are you taking us for a ride here?

Because you’re clearly trying to obfuscate the initial argument with BALONEY and when I start reading baloney I can no longer take you seriously…

[Pyrpolizer]

Of course you are. Now tell me why before those agreements we were not good enough for UN membership.See my post above on what happened regarding our UN application in 1957. Is it because we were a clearly defined nation before those agreements, or it it because we were NOT? And what actually made us a clearly defined nation? Our 78% population + 4% others?

Pyro, are you taking us for a ride here?

Because you’re clearly trying to obfuscate the initial argument with BALONEY and when I start reading baloney I can no longer take you seriously…

What is it that you did not understand from what i said, that makes you feel you were taken for a ride?
Your original statement was wrong on the first place, because it implied that any majority can call itself a NATION.