Cyprus-Forum.com

[elko]

Pirates,
I think it is time for an apology (only joking). the important thing is to learn and you have shown a willingness for this. Thanks you.
Have a look at this URL and check it for yourself. A Turkish politician was investigated recently for denying the Armenian Genocide by Swiss authorities.
ismet

http://www.icare.to/archive-maytojuly2005.html#TURKEY REJECTS SWISS GENOCIDE-DENIAL INQ

TURKEY REJECTS SWISS GENOCIDE-DENIAL INQUIRY
Turkey's foreign minister, Abdullah Gül, has criticised Switzerland for briefly detaining a Turkish politician on suspicion of violating Swiss anti-racism laws.

25/7/2005- Dogu Perinçek, who is leader of Turkey's Workers' Party, has twice denied that the killings of Armenians around the time of the First World War amounted to genocide. He is the subject of two criminal investigations. Under Swiss law, any act of denying, belittling or justifying genocide is a violation of the country's anti-racism laws. "It is not possible for us to accept these things to be done to the leader of a political party in Turkey," Gül was quoted in the Hürriyet newspaper. "Do these actions suit a country like Switzerland?" he asked.

Questioned
The public prosecutor of Winterthur questioned Perinçek on Saturday for more than two hours after a news conference he gave on Friday in Glattbrugg, near Zurich. In the speech honouring the 82nd anniversary of the Treaty of Lausanne, which fixed the borders of modern-day Turkey, Perinçek called claims of genocide against the Armenians an imperialist lie, authorities said. Perinçek is also under investigation from authorities in canton Vaud after a complaint from a Swiss-Armenian Society over a speech he gave in Lausanne in May. Gül described Saturday's questioning as "unacceptable" and "absolutely contrary to the principle of free speech". On Sunday, Perinçek repeated his denial of the Armenian genocide at celebrations attended by about 2,000 Turks near the Beau-Rivage hotel, scene of the treaty negotiations.

[Agios Amvrosios]

By the time Turkey is allowed into the EU it will have changed a thousand per cent

[bg_turk]

By the time Turkey is allowed into the EU it will have changed a thousand per cent

what will change the EU or Turkey?

[elko]

Pirates,
Also have a look at this please http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1525036.stm
Are you convinced now?
I have an Armenian friend who says that the same situation exists in Belgium too. According to the same rules, it is also a crime to deny the Jewish Holocaust in Germany. All this is an infringement on free speech.
ismet

[Piratis]

elko, what you said is:

In France and Switzerland, it is a crime to deny the so called Armenian Genocide.

However according to the Swiss law:

any act of denying, belittling or justifying genocide is a violation of the country's anti-racism laws

Therefore this is not something directed against Turkey.

In germany it is also an offense to deny the holocaust.

Personally I am for free speech so I agree with you.

Where I don't agree is that the Armenian genocide didn't happen. It obviously happened, and it would be better for Turkey to admit it and stop lies like "there was no Armenian genocide", "The Kurds are not oppressed", "In Cyprus we did a peace operation" etc. Such lies will not get Turkey anywhere. What Turkey needs is real progress.

[elko]

Pirates,
If you want to accuse anybody or any country you are free to do so, or at least you must be free to do so and not be afraid of committing an offence by doing so. People must be free to argue that what happened in Turkey did not amount to genocide. In the reference I gave you, people are in court in Switzerland for doing exactly this. I do not know what is the outcome and it is not really relevant to this argument.

I am used to people dishing out accusations parrot fashion and diverting an otherwise genuine discussion. I am no expert on the Armenian situation but my general belief is that the Armenians in Turkey did commit atrocities in order to set up an independent state and the Turks overreacted. Turkey argues that it was short of genocide. Whatever happened was not nice but it is all important to take into consideration the time and place and the circumstances in every case.
Now we can talk about Cyprus, something I know about. What happened in 1974 was indeed a Peace Operation, no doubt about that. AT least it saved the Turkish Cypriots from the onslaught of the Greek Cypriots. You must know all about the Akritas Plan and the others. It also saved many Greek Cypriots from the EOKA thugs. What Turkey did was also right in terms of International Law becaue as a guarantor psower she had the right and indeed the obligation to act. So stop blaming Turkey for the Peace Operation and look elsewhere if you want to blame anyone.
ismet

[Piratis]

The Turkish invasion had as a result the death of 6000 people and the ethnic cleansing of 200.000 Greek Cypriots from their own homes. No "Akritas" or anything else had ever made barbaric acts of this scale in Cyprus since the time that the Ottomans were ruling ouor island.

Unfortunately, as I said before, you are giving lame excuses and denying the obvious in an effort to excuse the crimes and the human rights violations that you continue to commit today, such as the illegal occupation of Cyprus which is against every international law and human rights principle.

I hope you can now realize why European countries have anti-racist laws in an effort to protect themselves from people that have your kind of mentality.

So instead of blaming Switzerland it would be much better to finally let behind your ugly past, stop giving excuses for the violations of international law and human rights that you commit, and finally become a more civilized country that can have a place within EU.

[elko]

Pirates,
I am used to Greeks and specially Greek Cypariots acting like spoilt children of Europe but thanks to Papadop people are now realising the true nature of what happened.
You attacked Turkish Cypriots and Turkey only fullfilled her obligations and saved them from the savage attacks. Iknow, for you, killing a Turk or a Turkish Cypriot is no violation of Human Rights because to youy they are not human.
Look at your argument about the so called anti racist laws. I agree that it must be racism if you encourage racism and as such it must be an offence, but by denying the right to argue that what happened in Turkey was not genocide is cvlearly impeaching on free speech. By saying that it was not genocide, it does not mean encouraging racism. In the same way, when the Turkish writer Orhan Pamuk admitted that it was genocide, I defend his right to free speech.
Where are your principles? Please try to be consistent and not at every corner avoid the real point of discussion and give out the parrot fashion blames on Turkey for anything and everything. I know that it is your pet subject but please try to be a alittle more rational. See how you evaded the Akritas accusation. See my point??
ismet

[Piratis]

You attacked Turkish Cypriots and Turkey only fullfilled her obligations and saved them from the savage attacks. Iknow, for you, killing a Turk or a Turkish Cypriot is no violation of Human Rights because to youy they are not human.

Wrong.
1) Both sides attacked each other and both sides had the same amount of casualties. So stop pretending to be the Virgin Mary.
2) In 1974 no TC was killed until the invasion had started.
3) The obligation of Turkey was to guarantee RoC and the constitutional order. what they did was exactly the opposite which they had no right and this is why the occupation has been and will always be illegal.

I agree that it must be racism if you encourage racism and as such it must be an offence, but by denying the right to argue that what happened in Turkey was not genocide is cvlearly impeaching on free speech.

I have already answered to this part of your argument when I said: "Personally I am for free speech so I agree with you. Where I don't agree is that the Armenian genocide didn't happen....". I am very consistent to what I say.

See how you evaded the Akritas accusation.

What else is there about the "akritas plan"? You compare a piece of document written many decades ago and the theories that you like to make about it, with the facts of the Turkish invasion and the illegal occupation that continues until today? I hope you understand how lame such excuses are.

I wonder, did Turkey present the "Akritas plan" as an excuse in the court cases of ECHR for our refugees?

[Sotos]

EU ENLARGEMENT Commissioner Olli Rehn has called on Turkey to improve its EU accession mission by opening up all ports and airports to Cyprus vessels.

Speaking after a meeting in Berlin with German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmayer, Rehn expressed concern over Turkey’s refusal to comply with EU demands on the issue.

The European Parliament warned Turkey last September that the country’s EU accession talks were tied to a promise to free up trade with Cyprus.

“We expect that Turkey will now without unnecessary delay pursue this objective,” Rehn said. “By November, when the Commission issues its next progress report, there must be concrete progress and no backtracking in the reform process,” he said.

Rehn also hit out at Turkey's slowing reform progress. He added that 2006 was a crucial test for the country's quest to join the EU.

“There is a clear risk that we have a period of difficulties with Turkey unless the reform process can be relaunched with full speed,” he said.