Cyprus-Forum.com

[little sugar]

I brought my house in paphos just over 2 years ago now, and we knew then that we should not buy in the north, because of all the injustice of what has gone on over the passed years.
I feel very strongly that people that are still buying property over there should not have any rights over keeping it, may they be british or from any other part of the world.
To prosper on someone else's suffering is wrong in any way shape of form.

[Anglo]

I brought my house in paphos just over 2 years ago now, and we knew then that we should not buy in the north, because of all the injustice of what has gone on over the passed years.
I feel very strongly that people that are still buying property over there should not have any rights over keeping it, may they be british or from any other part of the world.
To prosper on someone else's suffering is wrong in any way shape of form.

But if you are going to get moralistic then at least have the decency to acknowledge everyone's suffering. For example, do you feel guilty that when you enter the country through Larnaca airport that you are trespassing on a Turkish Cypriot's land for which he has received no compensation? An entire nation's wealth is built on this man's deprivation - do you care?

And how do you address the issue of a Turkish Cypriot's right to an equal chance at a decent life? At least 89% of the land that they find themselves forced to live on is former GC land - how do you open shops, hotels, build houses for your growing families without exploiting former GC land?

And if they have handed over their deeds to what they lost in the south to the TRNC government in exchange for comparable property - how can you begrudge them the opportunity make a little money to send their kids to university or to replace an old wreck of a car?

The trouble with your moral judgement is that is based on hypocrisy and the sentimental - and not the hard facts and realities on the ground.

[Anglo]

It is true that I take a passing interest in these legal matters. But despite my clandestine work for the Turkish motherland I am also interested in seeing a fair compromise in this whole matter...

If I'm not mistaken you have said that you work for the Intelligence Service, right?
Now you say that you work for the Turkish motherland...who are you? Mata Hari?
Anyway, whoever your employer is if he finds out that you spend too much time in from of your computer he won't like it....

Allow me to ask you though, why a fair compromise is of your interest?
What's behind it? An Anglo with so much interest in Cy problem it's only suspicious, unless that interest is coming out of his bank account

Well, as someone who has plenty of Cypriot friends and who has chosen to spend a good part of his life here, I am interested in how things are around me. And why shouldn't I take an interest and have a say? Three hundred thousand Cypriots live in the UK and are citizens with a vote. Surely now that we are all in the EU I can have a say too, can't I?

[Kifeas]

I brought my house in paphos just over 2 years ago now, and we knew then that we should not buy in the north, because of all the injustice of what has gone on over the passed years.
I feel very strongly that people that are still buying property over there should not have any rights over keeping it, may they be british or from any other part of the world.
To prosper on someone else's suffering is wrong in any way shape of form.

But if you are going to get moralistic then at least have the decency to acknowledge everyone's suffering. For example, do you feel guilty that when you enter the country through Larnaca airport that you are trespassing on a Turkish Cypriot's land for which he has received no compensation? An entire nation's wealth is built on this man's deprivation - do you care?

And how do you address the issue of a Turkish Cypriot's right to an equal chance at a decent life? At least 89% of the land that they find themselves forced to live on is former GC land - how do you open shops, hotels, build houses for your growing families without exploiting former GC land?

And if they have handed over their deeds to what they lost in the south to the TRNC government in exchange for comparable property - how can you begrudge them the opportunity make a little money to send their kids to university or to replace an old wreck of a car?

The trouble with your moral judgement is that is based on hypocrisy and the sentimental - and not the hard facts and realities on the ground.

All the things you said above are perfectly understandable.

You forgot a few things though, in your equation.
1. The Turkish troops occupied at least 4 times more Greek Cypriot properties than the TC left behind them in the south.

2. At the same time you are saying all the nice things above regarding the TCs in the north, some of which are understandable to some extend by me, there are 200,000 GCs out of which at least 3/4 did not get any property at all in the south, set aside one which they could sell and raise some money for their children’s education, or other family needs, etc.

3. For 29 years, the TCs that you are rightfully showing your concern about, although knew that they had gained access to substantially much more properties than they abandoned in the south, had been whistling indifferently to the fact that many GCs had lost all of their properties in the north and that there was no way they could have gotten an equivalent in the south, and instead they were supporting and running behind Mr. Denktash (not all of them,) who was getting elected continually by them during all those long 29 years, under the banner and of partition promises and this without mentioning the return of even a square meter of land from the excessive ones that they usurped from the GCs.

4. Beyond the 50 thousand TCs (1/4 of which emigrated from Cyprus early after 1974 without getting anything in the north,) the remaining (vast majority) of GC properties had been distributed to non "eligible" (in the context of land exchange between north and south,) and it is those very same people who are now to a large extent selling those GC properties that were given to them without anything in exchange.

Your above approach is correct but only as far as one little corner of the entire picture is concerned. The truth is that the regime in the north and the Turkish government had engaged themselves, or allowed to take place, an unprecedented looting and stealing of other individual's properties, perhaps the biggest that ever occurred worldwide -at least after the second half of the 20th century. The Turkish government should one day be tried and be made to pay dearly for engaging it self in such an unprecedented theft and injustice, rather than having the audacity of one million monkeys to demand on top to be accepted as a member of the EU.

[Anglo]

But if we are going to talk about Turkey's involvement and why she is there allowing what she has allowed to happen, we then also have to talk about why she got involved in the first place. And then we will go round and round the houses talking about Makarios, Akritas, Grivas, EOKA, TMT, British and US subterfuge etc.

The fact is that there is a reality in Cyprus borne out of a combination of fanaticism, ethnic hatreds and geopolitical necessities.

In the middle of all this are ordinary human beings (GC and TC) trying to lead the best lives they can. Some of them sell their property to foreigners looking for an investment or a retirement home. These people have not set back th likelihood of a solution one iota. The intransigence on both sides is there and will remain there anyway.

This whole mess should be put to bed once and for all with compensation for all concerned.

[Kifeas]

But if we are going to talk about Turkey's involvement and why she is there allowing what she has allowed to happen, we then also have to talk about why she got involved in the first place. And then we will go round and round the houses talking about Makarios, Akritas, Grivas, EOKA, TMT, British and US subterfuge etc.

The fact is that there is a reality in Cyprus borne out of a combination of fanaticism, ethnic hatreds and geopolitical necessities.

In the middle of all this are ordinary human beings (GC and TC) trying to lead the best lives they can. Some of them sell their property to foreigners looking for an investment or a retirement home. These people have not set back th likelihood of a solution one iota. The intransigence on both sides is there and will remain there anyway.

This whole mess should be put to bed once and for all with compensation for all concerned.

Anglo, I give you just one example to understand with what kind of country we have to deal with. There is an entire town that used to be the home of some 30,000 GCs together with their businesses, which for 30 years is of absolutely no use to them and they left it to get destroyed, instead of giving it back to its inhabitants and alleviate to some extend the problem that the GC community had to face after having lost so much more than the TC community lost in the south.

Tell me if there is any other more fascist a country on earth that would have done and continue to be doing something similar!

[cypezokyli]

hey little sugar welcome to the forum
i guess everybody knows /knew and its up to them to take the risk or not.

as one reporter today wrote, the cyprus problem is becoming day by day land problem. there is the case on the english court and there is the new law by talat. its going to be a difficult game. in a way, as we are using the EU accession against turkey, talat is playing the property game. i am not sure any more who remembers cyprus..

[little sugar]

Hey angelo, my best freinds family, who now has a business in London and is doing really well, owns the land just outside the airport and his neighbour owned the land that the bloody airport is built on. he has told me many stories about what happened way back during the occupation, some I find hard to believe but unless you were there you cannot judge. If you read my peice properly I said I felt sorry for all involved, and by that I mean anybody that is court up in this mess directly or indirectly!!!

[zan]

But if we are going to talk about Turkey's involvement and why she is there allowing what she has allowed to happen, we then also have to talk about why she got involved in the first place. And then we will go round and round the houses talking about Makarios, Akritas, Grivas, EOKA, TMT, British and US subterfuge etc.

The fact is that there is a reality in Cyprus borne out of a combination of fanaticism, ethnic hatreds and geopolitical necessities.

In the middle of all this are ordinary human beings (GC and TC) trying to lead the best lives they can. Some of them sell their property to foreigners looking for an investment or a retirement home. These people have not set back th likelihood of a solution one iota. The intransigence on both sides is there and will remain there anyway.

This whole mess should be put to bed once and for all with compensation for all concerned.

Anglo, I give you just one example to understand with what kind of country we have to deal with. There is an entire town that used to be the home of some 30,000 GCs together with their businesses, which for 30 years is of absolutely no use to them and they left it to get destroyed, instead of giving it back to its inhabitants and alleviate to some extend the problem that the GC community had to face after having lost so much more than the TC community lost in the south.

Tell me if there is any other more fascist a country on earth that would have done and continue to be doing something similar!

?????????

There has been a war, politics and outside antagonists and you expect all to be forgiven and forgotten and for every body to move back to where ever they came from. Everyone mixed up again without anything being resolved or settled. And of course its all the Turks fault so they should just back down. I dont know which one is worse, a facist or a nationalist with simplistic answers.

[Anglo]

If you read my peice properly I said I felt sorry for all involved, and by that I mean anybody that is court up in this mess directly or indirectly!!!

No you didn't say that. You basically put the boot into buyers in the north and said that they had no rights and deserved to be in a bad position. And you insinuated that they were somehow responsible for an immoral crime.