Cyprus-Forum.com

[Lordo]

its all bullshit and you know it. you are a clever boy. what action drove a coach and horses though the constitution assholecharlui.

never mind what happened in 58 that was before peace signed. you are asshole which ever way you look at it and you have burnt all bridges asshole. tcs will refuse any peace plan. taksim is the only choice now.

... and there we have it, from the horse's bum, as it were,... The target was Partition in 1958 and it remains Partition in 2013.

let me hel you cause i realise you are special needs charlui.
in 1960 we signed an agreement no taksim and no enosis. what does that say to you asshole. in the sixties kucuk went to ask for help from terkey and he got advised to go back to government.
1972 clerides agreed with dengtash to change the 13 amendments and unify the local authorities with no taksim or enosis. and who exactly refused that asshole.
after 74 they the last chance but yet tcs gave you chance after chance and you refused.2004 was the last one.

so who is the prize charlui ass - go on admit it because it is only hen that you may get some help and cure yourself charluimu.

[bill cobbett]

its all bullshit and you know it. you are a clever boy. what action drove a coach and horses though the constitution assholecharlui.

never mind what happened in 58 that was before peace signed. you are asshole which ever way you look at it and you have burnt all bridges asshole. tcs will refuse any peace plan. taksim is the only choice now.

... and there we have it, from the horse's bum, as it were,... The target was Partition in 1958 and it remains Partition in 2013.

let me hel you cause i realise you are special needs charlui.
in 1960 we signed an agreement no taksim and no enosis. what does that say to you asshole. in the sixties kucuk went to ask for help from terkey and he got advised to go back to government.
1972 clerides agreed with dengtash to change the 13 amendments and unify the local authorities with no taksim or enosis. and who exactly refused that asshole.
after 74 they the last chance but yet tcs gave you chance after chance and you refused.2004 was the last one.

so who is the prize charlui ass - go on admit it because it is only hen that you may get some help and cure yourself charluimu.

You're either a Simpleton or a Lying Bugger Fibbo.

Now, go and look at the transcripts of the Clerides/Donktosh correspondence on Cyprus Conflict.

Here's the start of the last bit of correspondence. The late Pres Clerides then goes in to more details...

"... Dear Rauf,

Your letter of the 9th of August, 1971, has been considered with the greatest care and in a real effort to detect in it any constructive elements. It has been, however, regretfully realized that the position of your side is totally intransigent as proved by its uncompromising positions to the problem both in general and on particular issues as well as by your statement that you are not authorized to negotiate on the position of your side regarding the establishment of two separate central Local Government Authorities.

To justify this intransigence you state, inter alia, that your side have agreed to almost all the suggested amendments of those parts of the Constitution on which my side had taken a stand as early as 1962.

It is clear that your side is labouring under a false impression on this issue and, therefore, it may be useful and constructive to examine the alleged acceptance by your side of almost all the points of amendment proposed by my side which, on the 30th of November, 1963, were embodied into a document bearing the title "President Makarios' Proposals to Amend the Cyprus Constitution" generally known as the "13 Points." ..."


Here, for instance, is what the late Pres C had to say to Rough on the matter of the "municipalities" ...,

Just one example of how your hog-wash of Rough accepting the amendments is very far from the anything like the truth.

"... Regarding, however, the alleged acceptance by your side of most of the proposed amendments of 1963, let me present the correct facts by staling what were some of the most important amendments asked for and what is the position of your side with regard to them.

It was proposed in 1963 that the separate Municipalities for the Greeks and the Turks in the five main towns, which under the 1960 constitution were to be established for an experimental period of five years, should be unified. Briefly stated the reasons which made necessary the unification of the Municipalities were the fact that geographical separation was not feasible, that the separation of the Municipalities would be financially detrimental to the townsmen and that the resulting duplication of Municipal Services and the cost of their proper functioning impossible. It was suggested that the Municipal Councils in each of the five main towns should consist of Greek and Turkish Councillors in proportion to the number of the Greek and Turkish inhabitants of such town by whom they would be elected respectively and that there should be earmarked in the Budget of each such town, after deducting any expenditure for common services, a sum proportionate to the ratio of the Turkish population of such town which should be disposed of for municipal purposes recommended by the Turkish Councillors.

Your side not only refuses to accept the unification of the Municipalities, but insists on extending this separation to the entire island overlooking the fact that the provisions of the 1960 Constitution were limited to five towns only and, in the first instance, to a period of five years, that geographical separation of Turkish areas is not feasible, that the Turkish Cypriots would be unable to cover the cost of their separate administration and that the resulting multiplication of separate services under two central Local Government Authorities would cause, inter alia, a heavy drain on the financial resources of the country with serious adverse effects on its future development. ..."

From just that one item Droppo, it should be clear, even to a moron, that Rough had no intention other than geographical separation of large areas of CY.

[Lordo]

First read this



Clerides comments on the intercommunal talks

In the year 1972, despite the internal situation amongst the Greek Cypriot community, I reached agreement with Mr. Denktash on all constitutional issues; except on the issue regarding the central local government authority.

On that issue the Turkish side abandoned its demand for the grouping of Turkish villages together in order to form areas of Turkish local government. It accepted that the House of Representatives would legislate, by simple majority, the laws relating to local government and that the two Communal Chambers would issue regulations, within the Laws enacted by the House, to be applied by the respective Greek and Turkish local government authorities. The Communal Chambers would also act as co-ordinators of the respective local government authorities. Administrative supervision would be exercised by a government civil servant. Further, agreement had already been reached on the power and functions of local government authorities. . .

Looking back at that formula I cannot but state that a cardinal error was committed by Makarios . . . , [who] considered [the formula] to be a form of concealed federation. . . . In local government autonomy, the element of two separate and geographical cohesive areas did not exist. The Greek Cypriots and the Turkish Cypriots would have remained in their villages and towns and would have enjoyed local government autonomy under their respective communities. Furthermore the scope of local government agreed to was much more limited than that of the powers and functions of a federal province, canton or state. Makarios in rejecting the September 1972 formula on local government failed to evaluate correctly the internal situation in Cyprus, i.e. the growing danger of a coup by the Greek military forces in Cyprus acting on orders from the Greek Junta, the reaction of Turkey to such a development, and the warning given by the United States. C

The internal situation amongst the Greek Cypriot community was such, the risk of a military coup by the Greek forces in Cyprus so great, and the danger of a Turkish invasion so real, that the formula of September 1972 on local government should have been accepted. Had it been accepted, an agreement would have been reached on the solution of the Cyprus problem, which would have left Cyprus with a much improved constitution. Turkey would have been thus deprived of any reason, and of any excuse to invade Cyprus. The Greek junta would have been prevented by the U.S. Government from attempting a military coup, and Cyprus would have been spared the Turkish invasion and its destructive effects.

and then i think you know what to do with it charluimi. i knew you were an ass but just did not realise what extent a charluiass you were.

i can also tell you what makarios said on refusing it too. he said i did not sign an agreement in 1960 excluding enosis to sign another one in 1972. and of course he got what he deserved you boys got exactly the same for being so stupid.

[Viewpoint]

Erol great posts, they are spot on precise and very informative but as you can clearly see from demons posts this is the level of intelligence, blindness and brain washed GC mentality which ensures that unification will never take place.

So you agree with erol that an apology from GCs would go a long way towards re-unifying the island with TCs accepting minority rights under a (contrite) GC majority?

Is that all you want then, VP? An apology in exchange for a democratic unified state?

Why didn’t you tell us sooner?

Why are you so suprised* I support erol 100% a genuine apology would be a great start to trusting GCs and not demand measures that would normally be considered excessive.

Demon you are not intelligent enough nor an independent mind, your greed to control and dominate does and will never allow you to understand such basic principles in encouraging unity. You made the same mistakes during the 1960s and do the same even today.

[erolz66]

So you agree with erol that an apology from GCs would go a long way towards re-unifying the island with TCs accepting minority rights under a (contrite) GC majority?

Is that all you want then, VP? An apology in exchange for a democratic unified state?

Why didn’t you tell us sooner?

Demonax this really is not rocket science. If you can not see and understand why the kind of sincere views expressed by Loucas Charalambous in his article http://cyprus-mail.com/2013/12/22/fifty ... d-in-1963/ help the prospect of reunification today and your views as expressed here hinder it, then there is not much more to say I guess.

[Lordo]

demonagimu is rather a simple person and only sees cyprus as greek. what he wants is a unitary state which will reduce the tcs to a minority. the problem with him is his lack of understanding that the tcs do have a choice in the matter. once he does understand this simple fact he will feel better for it. he will also have a better understanding of the possibilities in the future. 50 years of negotiations and not once considering unitary state is meaningless for the swine. but sooner or later he will wake up.

[Demonax]

Demonax this really is not rocket science. If you can not see and understand why the kind of sincere views expressed by Loucas Charalambous in his article http://cyprus-mail.com/2013/12/22/fifty ... d-in-1963/ help the prospect of reunification today and your views as expressed here hinder it, then there is not much more to say I guess.

Erolz, I'm not interested in apologies. I'm interested in telling the truth about history. Irrespective of the consequences. Whose agenda does it serve to portray Turkish Cypriots as innocent passive victims? What kind of absurdly distorted version of Cypriot history are you trying to push?

What I cannot tolerate are absurd arguments and a complete ignorance of history.

Your interpretation of the reasons for the breakdown of the 1960 Constitution is nonsense. As is your understanding of the so-called 'Akritas Plan' which had nothing to do with ethnic cleansing and everything to do with protecting the island from a possible Turkish invasion and changing the constitution to make it more democratic in order to reflect the will of the majority of the population. You cannot even acknowledge that the 1960 Constitution had become unworkable because the Turks were exploiting its provisions to create crisis, collapse the state and to bring about partition.

Instead you gloss over all the evidence that the Turkish Cypriot leadership were in league with Turkey to partition the island and you demand we apologise for resisting the belligerence of Turkey and the insurrection of their proxies in our midst.

I'm all for truth and reconciliation but before there can be reconciliation there must first be truth. I will leave apologies to useful idiots like Loukas Charalambous who tells you want to hear. You clearly are satisfied with that. So there's very little more to say.

[B25]

Demonax this really is not rocket science. If you can not see and understand why the kind of sincere views expressed by Loucas Charalambous in his article http://cyprus-mail.com/2013/12/22/fifty ... d-in-1963/ help the prospect of reunification today and your views as expressed here hinder it, then there is not much more to say I guess.

Erolz, I'm not interested in apologies. I'm interested in telling the truth about history. Irrespective of the consequences. Whose agenda does it serve to portray Turkish Cypriots as innocent passive victims? What kind of absurdly distorted version of Cypriot history are you trying to push?

What I cannot tolerate are absurd arguments and a complete ignorance of history.

Your interpretation of the reasons for the breakdown of the 1960 Constitution is nonsense. As is your understanding of the so-called 'Akritas Plan' which had nothing to do with ethnic cleansing and everything to do with protecting the island from a possible Turkish invasion and changing the constitution to make it more democratic in order to reflect the will of the majority of the population. You cannot even acknowledge that the 1960 Constitution had become unworkable because the Turks were exploiting its provisions to create crisis, collapse the state and to bring about partition.

Instead you gloss over all the evidence that the Turkish Cypriot leadership were in league with Turkey to partition the island and you demand we apologise for resisting the belligerence of Turkey and the insurrection of their proxies in our midst.

I'm all for truth and reconciliation but before there can be reconciliation there must first be truth. I will leave apologies to useful idiots like Loukas Charalambous who tells you want to hear. You clearly are satisfied with that. So there's very little more to say.

Demon, well said n'sai kala file mou. Merry Christmas to you and yours.

[Viewpoint]

Demonax this really is not rocket science. If you can not see and understand why the kind of sincere views expressed by Loucas Charalambous in his article http://cyprus-mail.com/2013/12/22/fifty ... d-in-1963/ help the prospect of reunification today and your views as expressed here hinder it, then there is not much more to say I guess.

Erolz, I'm not interested in apologies. I'm interested in telling the truth about history. Irrespective of the consequences. Whose agenda does it serve to portray Turkish Cypriots as innocent passive victims? What kind of absurdly distorted version of Cypriot history are you trying to push?

What I cannot tolerate are absurd arguments and a complete ignorance of history.

Your interpretation of the reasons for the breakdown of the 1960 Constitution is nonsense. As is your understanding of the so-called 'Akritas Plan' which had nothing to do with ethnic cleansing and everything to do with protecting the island from a possible Turkish invasion and changing the constitution to make it more democratic in order to reflect the will of the majority of the population. You cannot even acknowledge that the 1960 Constitution had become unworkable because the Turks were exploiting its provisions to create crisis, collapse the state and to bring about partition.

Instead you gloss over all the evidence that the Turkish Cypriot leadership were in league with Turkey to partition the island and you demand we apologise for resisting the belligerence of Turkey and the insurrection of their proxies in our midst.

I'm all for truth and reconciliation but before there can be reconciliation there must first be truth. I will leave apologies to useful idiots like Loukas Charalambous who tells you want to hear. You clearly are satisfied with that. So there's very little more to say.

Thank you for totally proving our point.

[Demonax]

Demonax this really is not rocket science. If you can not see and understand why the kind of sincere views expressed by Loucas Charalambous in his article http://cyprus-mail.com/2013/12/22/fifty ... d-in-1963/ help the prospect of reunification today and your views as expressed here hinder it, then there is not much more to say I guess.

Erolz, I'm not interested in apologies. I'm interested in telling the truth about history. Irrespective of the consequences. Whose agenda does it serve to portray Turkish Cypriots as innocent passive victims? What kind of absurdly distorted version of Cypriot history are you trying to push?

What I cannot tolerate are absurd arguments and a complete ignorance of history.

Your interpretation of the reasons for the breakdown of the 1960 Constitution is nonsense. As is your understanding of the so-called 'Akritas Plan' which had nothing to do with ethnic cleansing and everything to do with protecting the island from a possible Turkish invasion and changing the constitution to make it more democratic in order to reflect the will of the majority of the population. You cannot even acknowledge that the 1960 Constitution had become unworkable because the Turks were exploiting its provisions to create crisis, collapse the state and to bring about partition.

Instead you gloss over all the evidence that the Turkish Cypriot leadership were in league with Turkey to partition the island and you demand we apologise for resisting the belligerence of Turkey and the insurrection of their proxies in our midst.

I'm all for truth and reconciliation but before there can be reconciliation there must first be truth. I will leave apologies to useful idiots like Loukas Charalambous who tells you want to hear. You clearly are satisfied with that. So there's very little more to say.

Demon, well said n'sai kala file mou. Merry Christmas to you and yours.

You too, B25. Enough of these people. Time for some festivity...