Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

Not a trap or tangent at all. You should know by now, I have stated enough times, the only thing I care about (here) is Cyprus being free!

Not good enough a reason? Others might forget why Cyprus matters. I never forget!

So why waste your time with bird talk?

Have a look at what Erolz writes against Cyprus/RoC. They jump on every opportunity (birds matter, but they are shamefully used as political 'scapegoats'). It all matters, relatively. But, making Cyprus seem inadequate with lies and exaggerations?

Cyprus has the most highly educated young generation now - it doesn't need these Turks or other foreigners telling it that "attitudes" need to change. Cyprus has left these dinosaurs behind. They are scraping the barrel to hang on to something long gone and going...

Just give Cyprus back to the natives! Remove the Turkish troops!

[erolz66]

Not a trap or tangent at all. You should know by now, I have stated enough times, the only thing I care about (here) is Cyprus being free!

Not good enough a reason? Others might forget why Cyprus matters. I never forget!

So why waste your time with bird talk?

Have a look at what Erolz writes against Cyprus/RoC. They jump on every opportunity (birds matter, but they are shamefully used as political 'scapegoats'). It all matters, relatively. But, making Cyprus seem inadequate with lies and exaggerations?

If you READ what I have written on this subject rather than just make up what I have said to suit your propaganda objective then it is clear I am against the practice of illegal trapping as practiced on Cyprus - all of it north and south - because of the unnecessary damage it does to endangered species. I have repeatedly and explicitly NOT singles out the RoC alone. I have explicitly stated that this kind of trapping in Cyprus is nothing to do with 'being Cypriot' and is a function of the geographical location of Cyprus relative to migratory bird routes and I have spoke openly and honestly about the months of paid and unpaid voluntary WORK I have done in regards to this issue AS a Cypriot in BOTH the South AND the North. years before this thread started.

There is someone shamefully seeking to 'politicise' this topic and who systematically uses lies and exaggeration and it is not me.

[Jerry]

Not a trap or tangent at all. You should know by now, I have stated enough times, the only thing I care about (here) is Cyprus being free!

Not good enough a reason? Others might forget why Cyprus matters. I never forget!

So why waste your time with bird talk?

Have a look at what Erolz writes against Cyprus/RoC. It all matters.

But this "debate" is about animals and bird trapping, why do you drag the Cyprus problem into it?

[GreekIslandGirl]

Not a trap or tangent at all. You should know by now, I have stated enough times, the only thing I care about (here) is Cyprus being free!

Not good enough a reason? Others might forget why Cyprus matters. I never forget!

So why waste your time with bird talk?

Have a look at what Erolz writes against Cyprus/RoC. It all matters.

But this "debate" is about animals and bird trapping, why do you drag the Cyprus problem into it?

I think you'll find it's others denigrating Cyprus unfairly that makes me redress the balance. Nothing more.

[supporttheunderdog]

Not a trap or tangent at all. You should know by now, I have stated enough times, the only thing I care about (here) is Cyprus being free!

Not good enough a reason? Others might forget why Cyprus matters. I never forget!

So why waste your time with bird talk?

Have a look at what Erolz writes against Cyprus/RoC. It all matters.

But this "debate" is about animals and bird trapping, why do you drag the Cyprus problem into it?

I think you'll find it's others denigrating Cyprus unfairly that makes me redress the balance. Nothing more.

Your problem is that any form of criticism of Cyprus is seen as unfair = is it for example wrong to criticise the individuals said to be involved in various corrupt practices as widely reported in the press - e.g. the Dromoloxia land trial or events allegedly involving the former Mayor of Paphos, or does that constitute an attack on the ROC (when it is the government of the ROC in through the current Attorney General who is trying to deal with these problems)? For the avoidance of doubt I too want to see the Turkish Army off the Island, and the free right of ALL Cypriots to the return to property they have been forced to abandon since the start of troubles in the late 1950's, and the abolition of the SBA as a part of a comprehensive settlement involving the above, so don't have a go at me or my condemnation of the illegal bird trapping as some sort of neocolonialist plot to hand Cyprus over Turkey or any other non Cyprus based government entity (including Greece).

Bird trapping is illegal and it will take efforts to bring it to an end - now do you support them or not?

[GreekIslandGirl]

Stud, where have I said that bird trapping is not illegal? Where have I failed to support the RoC's efforts to control all forms of illegalities?

Nowhere!

In fact, I seem to be one of only 2 or 3 posters here who are actually supporting the REAL efforts and successes managed by the RoC under severe limitations and constraints brought about by its right arm (northern Cyprus) being under illegal occupation by Turkey.

Which other country has done more under such circumstances?

Instead of criticising Cyprus, with lies and exaggerated sensationalisms, we should be helpful and supportive of its efforts - and that does not mean you make out that its people are inferior in some capacity. Such de-humanizing methods were used by Hitler and other nasty people to destroy races.

[Paphitis]

Stud, where have I said that bird trapping is not illegal? Where have I failed to support the RoC's efforts to control all forms of illegalities?

Nowhere!

In fact, I seem to be one of only 2 or 3 posters here who are actually supporting the REAL efforts and successes managed by the RoC under severe limitations and constraints brought about by its right arm (northern Cyprus) being under illegal occupation by Turkey.

Which other country has done more under such circumstances?

Instead of criticising Cyprus, with lies and exaggerated sensationalisms, we should be helpful and supportive of its efforts - and that does not mean you make out that its people are inferior in some capacity. Such de-humanizing methods were used by Hitler and other nasty people to destroy races.

The efforts of volunteers and NGO's such as Birdlife are no less REAL than the RoC authorities.

In fact, they are being funded by the EU, Cyprus Greens and the Department of Environment, Flora and Fauna.

The problem is quite real, and the RoC authorities don't seem to be coping very well due to lack of resources. This is an international issue not just common to Cyprus, and hence activism is very important in trying to turn the tide. They do not work against the RoC authorities.

They also have a right to be engaging illegal hunting and to raise awareness. Cyprus is NOT CHINA or Turkey! Thank you very much!

We do not vilify organisations trying to achieve good things for all because we think it is "bad publicity". If we all think like this, then the entire environment and Global Warming activism has absolutely zero chance, and humanity will pay the price. It's usually the poorest countries that will pay the most.

[The subaltern]

I have tried to respond to Erloz 66 in the style he is familiar with; the tit for tat style; scoring points against each other that is. Am afraid I found it futile, sterile and lacking in depth; so I abandoned it half way despite the fact that’s a much easier method.

Should anyone wishing to see answers to Elroz66 post and more on the subject, will be found on pages: 14,15,16,17,18,19,21,22,and 23 and beyond. They are long expositions that may not be suited to all.

My aim was not to win points, even arguments, but to present another point of view different from those with the tit for tat style and point scoring.

However, I will ask any one of you following this thread, if you could provide me with any information regarding reports compiled by Birdlife/CABS on bird trapping in the occupied part of Cyprus. I am very interested in reading them. I hope Lordo can help here since Erolz66 is not very forthcoming. I know he mentioned CUSCOR; what I am getting though from that side, is about bird watching in the occupied part of Cyprus.

I will be unable to respond to challenges at the moment as I am rather busy. If in the meantime something of interest crops up I will probably be able to respond after mid-January.

And happy Xmas and New Year to all

[erolz66]

My aim was not to win points, even arguments, but to present another point of view different from those with the tit for tat style and point scoring.

Yes you have tried to present a different point of view and your different point of view is based on factual inaccuracies.

You present the 'different view' that Birdlife Cyprus is a foreign organisation - it is not it is in fact a predominantly Cypriot organisation in both its funding and those who work for it.
You present the 'different view' that trapping as it is practiced today does not do any damage to endangered species. It does.
You present the 'different view' that lime sticks are not an indiscriminate form of hunting. They are an indiscriminate form of hunting and even a child could understand that.
You present the 'different view' that Birdlife Cyprus have never made any attempt to engage hunters in Cyprus, legal and illegal. This is just not true.
You present the 'different view' that I seek to single out the RoC over this issue. I have in fact repeatedly and explicitly made clear that I do NOT single out the RoC alone and the issue is island wide.
You present the 'different view' that I have no real interest in the issue beyond trying to make the RoC look bad. I have in fact spent months of my time working on projects related to this issue both paid and unpaid both in the north and south and have stated this repeatedly.
You present a 'different view' that there is no opposition in Cyprus to Birdlife Cyprus on this issue. In fact you and GiG are opposition but what is more you have Government ministers openly supporting 'traditional hunting' and publically admitting publically they eat black caps.

and on and on and on. So yes it is a 'different view' one founded on un truths and inaccuracies.

I know he mentioned CUSCOR; what I am getting though from that side, is about bird watching in the occupied part of Cyprus.

The link I have already given leads to a pdf document. The title of this pdf document is "Report of the Weekend Field Trip to Karpaz October 10th, 11th and 12th 2008 re
Illegal Trapping." Notice the words 'report' and 'illegal trapping' ?

[Lordo]

its very simple really. facts are facts. subaltern i would turn my attention to the garbage your fascist friends are posting here, if i was you.