Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

The bi annual surveys that Birdlife Cyprus carry out are not 'advertising' and that you can describer them as such just shows the depth of your ignorance. So now the Leventis family and the funds they have set up are to be subject to your attacks are they ?

No, it shows the depths of your pointlessness as you set up your own fallacies to knock down.

So when you said

I worked for two different charities for over two years and support two others. I know a little of how they work and they are NOT scientific in their advertising!

You were NOT suggesting that the bi annual surveys Birdlife Cyprus conduct to monitor illegal trapping activity and have been doping so for over 10 years, were not scientific ?

You can see what I said and any additions and extrapolations are your own. Stop making stuff up to troll.

When you said

no matter who has been roped in to support them, perhaps in order to reduce their personal tax liability. There are enough idiots even here with money to throw around and pretend they are 'humanitarian'.

You were NOT 'suggesting' that the Leventis family that funds Birdlife Cyprus 'perhaps' did so only as a 'tax doge' and were idiots with money playing at being 'humanitarian' ?

You can see what I said and any additions and extrapolations are your own. Stop making stuff up to troll.


Erolz, if you are representative of the types of people associated with 'caring' for nature in Cyprus, then please stop as you are doing a lot of harm to the cause with your lies and exaggerations and bringing such associations into disrepute.

[GreekIslandGirl]

What a great shame that something all of us care about greatly, the sustaining of our natural environment and the inhabitants we have coexisted with for thousands if not millions of years, has been sabotaged by the anti-Cypriot brigade, the racists and the illegal occupiers of Cyprus as part of their ploy to control Cyprus.

Just like many decent democratic protests have thugs hanging on to cause destruction and undermine the processes, so it seems we have thugs infiltrating any attempts by the RoC to conserve Cyprus and its flora/fauna/people.

One of the charities I really respect recently tackled the problem of reduction of numbers of a particular species in a holisitc social manner. They looked at the impact of climate change on numbers, loss of habitat in migratory/hunting routes, compensation incentives to those who would otherwise have profited from hunting this species, plus more. They were sensitive to industry, farmers and above all, local fading customs. In other words, they conducted themselves in a rational and scientific manner and fortunately did not have such racists jumping on the "cultural attitude" bandwagon with which to besmirch a whole nation. They have my support and that of many others who care about the animals and not scoring political points.

The flora matter, the fauna matter, and yes, the people matter too. Get the Turkish troops out and Cyprus will have more resources and less wrongful interference.

[erolz66]

Erolz, if you are representative of the types of people associated with 'caring' for nature in Cyprus, then please stop as you are doing a lot of harm to the cause with your lies and exaggerations and bringing such associations into disrepute.

You are the one suggesting that those who fund Birdlife Cyprus do so 'perhaps' as a tax dodge and not because they care about the issues, that those that work for them are 'foreigners' with an agenda to besmirch the RoC and that the bi annual reports they put out yearly about the level of illegal trapping in the RoC and the damage it causes are purposefully misleading and distorted because they have an agenda to besmirch the RoC and then you claim that it is ME that is bringing this organisations into disrepute !

What a great shame that something all of us care about greatly, the sustaining of our natural environment and the inhabitants we have coexisted with for thousands if not millions of years, has been sabotaged by the anti-Cypriot brigade, the racists and the illegal occupiers of Cyprus as part of their ploy to control Cyprus.

Birdlife Cyprus are not 'anti-Cypriot' not racist and not illegal occupiers of Cyprus. They were conducting rigorous scientific surveys of trapping activity in the RoC long before I was involved with them in any way and continue to do so long after I stopped my participation. It is their reports that show that your previous claims (RoC is doing excellent job , that no real damage is done etc etc) are unfounded.

One of the charities I really respect recently tackled the problem of reduction of numbers of a particular species in a holisitc social manner. They looked at the impact of climate change on numbers, loss of habitat in migratory/hunting routes, compensation incentives to those who would otherwise have profited from hunting this species, plus more. They were sensitive to industry, farmers and above all, local fading customs. In other words, they conducted themselves in a rational and scientific manner and fortunately did not have such racists jumping on the "cultural attitude" bandwagon with which to besmirch a whole nation. They have my support and that of many others who care about the animals and not scoring political points.

So will you tell what this charity is and what the project you refer to was ?

[The subaltern]

Erolz66

As I have suspected! You have a different agenda hidden behind your purported interest in bird protection.

While you are very eager to propagandize what the GCs are doing in relation to avian destruction, you are not so eager to provide any information relating to the occupied part of Cyprus. You are asking me to do the leg work.

Been a Cypriot and not a Turk, as you have claimed in one of your previous posts, you are not showing the same impartiality when it comes to bird survival in Cyprus; you prefer to talk about the free part of Cyprus.

I was always wondering why a Turkish Cypriot is so eager in saving the birds in the free part of Cyprus and posting his views in as he had said, in an obscure side, while he mentions nothing about the other site. I now know. Your interest is not birds, but scoring points against the free part of Cyprus; hence the reason for not answering any of my questions, especially the last one I have put to you. You are a fraught mate. And do not come with any of your silly arguments, about drugs, and putting cats in prison.

And thanks Lordo; I was not expecting this statement from you. (Both sites are the same. Yet there are no reports about the occupied part! I wonder why. )

Been a newcomer to this side I should have taken note of some comments made by GIG. I can now see her point. Sorry GIG.

To Get Real.

A much more interesting statement was put by Get Real that ought to be considered. Yes, there is so little wild life in Cyprus and ought to be protected. I agree with you.

You know, the Cyprus wild life is in the main migratory birds arriving from Western Europe. We see less and less of them due to what is happening in Europe. That is due to: destruction of avian habitat, methods of farming, use of pesticides and the like. That’s outside the control of the Cypriots and is neither the fault of the trappers.

A local bird could here be taken as an example of habitat destruction and loss of food sources resulting in reduction of its numbers. The sparrow is the bird.
Up until the 70s as I have been told, sparrows were abundant. Thy were seen in huge flocks in cities, villages and fields, despite the relentless hunting by the young with catapults, wire traps, nest rummaging for egg collecting etc. (no lime sticks though)

Any one walking in a city, village or countryside now, will not experience what my father had experience when he was young or the couple of old age pensioners posting here had experience and yet so proud of having a fraught as a compatriot.

Now, what happened to the sparrows of Cyprus? Why are so few of them now? Eaten by the hungry Cypriots? Killed by barbarians for pleasure? Nothing of the sort has happened. In fact is due to habitat destruction and food sources.

When I sit by the sea at Limassol, I notice that the sparrows have lost all fear of humans. That was not the case in the past. Why so? The sparrows have become scavengers and dependent upon humans for their survival.

In the past the sparrows had abundant food sources, like manure in the streets from the abundant horse, donkeys, and cows, been the transport of the time, as well as from thrashing floors in the summer and dung heaps in back yards in the villagers.
Their habitat has also been destroyed. Sparrows were nesting under the tiles of old houses and on holes on walls which were made from mad bricks. All these have now gone; habitat as well as foot sources; hence one of the main reasons of sparrow reduction in numbers.

The same reasons and more, effect the birds in Europe and that’s why we see not many. They have been reduced in numbers.

I hope you got the gist of my argument. So if we tackle the primary reasons of avian reduction then we will see lots more birds even for the trappers.

Another long …. for some

[erolz66]

Erolz66

As I have suspected! You have a different agenda hidden behind your purported interest in bird protection.

While you are very eager to propagandize what the GCs are doing in relation to avian destruction, you are not so eager to provide any information relating to the occupied part of Cyprus. You are asking me to do the leg work.

Been a Cypriot and not a Turk, as you have claimed in one of your previous posts, you are not showing the same impartiality when it comes to bird survival in Cyprus; you prefer to talk about the free part of Cyprus.

So your claim is that I only focus on the RoC and not the North with regards to this issue. Shall we look at what I have actually said then , in this very thread, rather than just take you accusation that I focus only on the RoC, on which the rest of your 'argument' is based, at face value ? Would that be ok with you ? The following is just a small selection

I have never criticised the RoC over this issue in isolation. I have always referred to CYPRIOTS in my criticisms never the RoC alone.

I do not blame the RoC - I blame Cypriot indifference be that TC or GC indifference.

Of course illegal trapping goes on across the island and I have never said otherwise.

And thanks Lordo; I was not expecting this statement from you. (Both sites are the same. Yet there are no reports about the occupied part! I wonder why. )

I have said repeatedly the whole objective of my involvement with Birdlife Cyprus' project in the south was to TRY and set up the equivalent in the NORTH. The fact is we do not have the hard DATA for the situation in the north like we do in the south because there have not been such detailed year on year studies in the north and my whole involvement in the projects in the south was about trying to rectify this. As to why there is not such in the north there are myriad reasons why but the principal one is down to money. It costs to do the kind of rigorous detailed bi annual studies that Birdlife Cyprus have been conducting in the South, significant money. The equivalent of Birdlife Cyprus in the north (Kuskor) does not have a benefactor like the Leventis family and the politics of getting external funding to Kuskor in the north are massively more challenging that getting them for Birdlife Cyprus in the south.

In terms of hard data with regards to monitoring the situation the RoC, through the efforts of Birdlife Cyprus, is miles ahead of the north in this regard. In terms of attitudes of Cypriots like yourself and GiG that seek to do everything they can to portray such hard data as 'lies and propaganda' by foreigners with a hidden anti Cypriot agenda and to deny that illegal trapping as practiced today in Cyprus has any material impact on endangered species then there is little difference.

I have NEVER made out that this is an issue that only applies to the South. I have consistently spoke about it being one that applies to all of Cyprus, north and south GC and TC alike. YOU and GiG are the one who consistently insist on trying to turn it into an issue of politics , not me.

You know, the Cyprus wild life is in the main migratory birds arriving from Western Europe. We see less and less of them due to what is happening in Europe. That is due to: destruction of avian habitat, methods of farming, use of pesticides and the like. That’s outside the control of the Cypriots and is neither the fault of the trappers.

Once more for the umpteenth time. Damage done to endangered species from illegal trapping in Cyprus (all of it) is NOT the only cause, nor is it even the biggest cause. It is however , despite your propaganda claims to the contrary, a contributory cause. What is more stopping it has no real actual downside unlike stopping urban development, banning used of pesticides. It is simply unnecessary and it is exactly because of the pressure created by other causes that are much more complex and difficult to stop that it becomes vital to stop this one that is not complex and should not be that difficult to stop. Would stopping all illegal trapping in Cyprus mean that endangered species will no longer be endangered. No of course it will not but it will help and that is the point.

[miltiades]

You are a patient man Erolz. At this stage I would have told both of these fellow Cypriots to ....

Mate don't listen to them, do not disassociate your self from something you are not associated with.

You are an admirable Cypriot, I salute you.

[erolz66]

You are a patient man Erolz. At this stage I would have told both of these fellow Cypriots to ....

Mate don't listen to them, do not disassociate your self from something you are not associated with.

You are an admirable Cypriot, I salute you.

Thank you.

[The subaltern]

Erolz66,

Sorry dude, you ARE a fraud! You never answer questions even now! Evading questions is not a proper way of conducting a discussion unless you have something to hide. Your arguments, am sorry to say, are stupid at times, spurious and full of inconsistencies and contradictions.

I ask you again: Are there or are there no reports compiled by the bird agencies on avian destruction in the occupied part of Cyprus? If there are none, why you do not say so and instead asking me to do the foot work? What are you trying to conceal?
However, am not going to analyze each statement you make. This will be a waste of time. I have tried to, but you come up with even worst spurious arguments.

I trust the visitors of the side can see through your arguments. Be pleased though since you have an old friend who supports you. He has though himself nothing to say of value on the subject. He is your blind follower. Sorry dud.

[Paphitis]

Here are some non biased information about the extent of the problem by Cypriots in RIK!



[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sslXYTicZp4#t=14[/youtube]

[erolz66]

Erolz66,

Sorry dude, you ARE a fraud! You never answer questions even now! Evading questions is not a proper way of conducting a discussion unless you have something to hide. Your arguments, am sorry to say, are stupid at times, spurious and full of inconsistencies and contradictions.

So YOU claim, but then you have also claimed that I focus on the RoC and ignore the north with regards to this issue despite the fact that it can clearly be seen I have actually done exactly the opposite, so what credibility these claims have given that is for each person to judge.

I ask you again: Are there or are there no reports compiled by the bird agencies on avian destruction in the occupied part of Cyprus? If there are none, why you do not say so and instead asking me to do the foot work?

I will AGAIN answer you. Yes there are some reports compiled by 'bird agencies' looking specifically at the level of illegal trapping in the north. Again I will tell you that such studies as have been done in the north as massively less systematic and rigorous as those done in the south by Birdlife Cyprus and thus the conclusion drawn from them are no where near as reliable as those from the studies done by Birdlife Cyprus in the south. I will tell you AGAIN that my involvement with Birdlife Cyprus' studies in the south was done specifically as part of an effort to increase and improve those done in the north such that they would produce hard data with the same level of usefulness as that produced by Birdlife Cyprus in the south. AGAIN I will ask you, what possible point could there be in providing you examples of such reports given that you systematically portray the ones produced by Birdlife Cyprus as made up propaganda as part of some 'hidden agenda', whilst you have STILL failed to explain what this agenda actually is.

What are you trying to conceal?

I am not trying to conceal anything. I am asking what could be the possible point in providing you with reports about illegal trapping levels in the north when you refuse to believe those done in the south that are some of the most credible ones done anywhere in the world ? 5 minutes of google searching and you could find them yourself. Not that it will shut you up or make one iota of difference but here is one for you

http://www.honeyguide.co.uk/documents/B ... er2008.pdf

I trust the visitors of the side can see through your arguments.

Just as I trust that visitors to this site can see who is more credible in terms of answering the question does illegal bird trapping as practiced in Cyprus (all of it) today do real material damage to endangered species or not. Birdlife Cyprus, an essentially Cypriot organisation that has been doing systematic surveys that monitor illegal trapping activity for over 10 years now, or you and GiG. Just as I trust they can see for themselves who out of the two of us is really seeking to try and portray this as an issue of politics between GC and TC rather than what it actually is, an environmental issue that applies and is relevant to north and south Cyprus and both communities.