Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Reading the available information put out on the internet regarding the treatment of birds and animals in Cyprus one may very easily come to the conclusion that the western man is the lover and protector of animals and birds, while the rest of humanity are insensitive brutes.

Nonsense!

There is not a great deal of information put on the internet about Cypriot Attitudes to animals other than some content placed there by some British and Cypriot activists who are concerned about the illegal industry which they believe is unsustainable.

Cypriots are Western and no one has ever supported the notion that Cypriots are insensitive brutes towards conservation.

They, the western man, project an image of him/her self to the world, or at least to a section of it, who unquestionably and uncritically believe that it is the case. This image, if believed, places the western man in a position of power, authority and influence over others which is ultimately the purpose of promoting and propagandising this image.
Now how true is the image? Has it always been the case? Or is it just an illusion? Do their feelings towards birds and animals differ so much from those of others they so fervently criticise?

Once again absolute nonsense!

Such attitudes are what I would expect from someone with a major chip on their shoulder!

We are not though going to get into a detail analysis of the subject. We can though draw some conclusions by examining the past and present treatment of animals by the Europeans that may shed some light as to whether or not the image projected is in fact true.

The western man has been more or less everywhere. Not as a creature roaming the planet in search of food and shelter, but as a conqueror of lands, peoples and recourses.
In this capacity, he had for a period total control and claimed ownership of everything. Birds and animals were there for his pleasure or exploitation.

Irrelevant!

Conservation is a global movement. It does not distinguish between Western and Eastern Man, Cypriot or Brit. There is a lot more material on the internet about Japanese Whaling and the Pantagonian Tooth Fish for instance than there is about Ambellopoullia.

Hunting for pleasure has been going on for a long time. Note; hunting for PLEASURE. This kind of hunting does not denote a loving relationship between western man and animal or bird. It denotes a selfish pursuit of an animal or bird in order to kill it, because they derive pleasure from the act of killing and nothing more. The traditional hunting in order to eat has been replaced by the pleasure of the kill.

Hunting is very regulated and as long as the authorities regulate and control and hunters follow the rules, then there is no problem.

Hunting is also a popular activity in Cyprus but this legal practice is not under the microscope of this thread. Illegal Bird Trapping is!

According to a survey by BASEC of hunting in Britain 2006, 73% of hunters reported that they were practising the “sport” for recreational reasons!! While 22% saw it a business and 18% were doing it for profit. For recreation is 73%!! We see here the replacement of hunting in order to eat, with hunting for pleasure. That’s killing for the sake of killing!! Does it resemble ambeloboulia trapping at all?

Still irrelevant!

What are the statistics for Cypriot Hunting?

However, recreational shooting is not confined to Britain alone. In fact shooting of animals and birds for pleasure is going on all over Western & Northern Europe and America, with out a murmur been heard and if it does is very quickly silenced by the hunting interests.

Recreational Shooting also occurs in Cyprus! I know it very well, because my family is active in the industry. We operate one of the biggest Gun and Hunting stores on the island!

It occurs in Cyprus as well, but it is still irrelevant because the authorities regulate and control the practice and it is not illegal.

“The economic role of hunting tourism” in the northern lands is a report by the University of Helsinki Rural institute Report 64, 2010, where the economic benefits of hunting tourism were presented in a matter of fact. No emotions were recorded of any kind just the economic benefits of the “sport” simple and clear, unlike the emotional outbursts we hear regarding hunting in Cyprus.

There is no emotion over the practice of fishing either.

However, an interesting hunting practice was reported in the report in Swedish Lapland. Trophy hunting!! It was standing at approximately 8% of hunting. This was just a statistic! In fact the heads of the animals are now hanging on hunters’ walls somewhere; macabre displays in the houses of the civilised!!!
I wonder if Mrs Loosley from Switzerland will up sticks from Cyprus and go to the Swedish Lapland to protest. Not really, for three reasons (a) too cold there (b) It is “sustainable” hunting!! And (c) …well Sweden is civilised.
BTW, the Swedish wolf has been exterminated by hunters since 1963.

Conservationists are very active against the practice but it still does not change the fact that Trophy Hunting is legal.

This kind of hunting has been going on for donkey’s years by westerners in the conquered lands from India, Africa and America.
Some names, heroes in fact of the western hunting achievements and love for animals, may be of interest to those searching for the truth rather than believing in myths.
Not that it will make any difference regarding their attitude towards the Cypriot hunting practises.
One does not know from where to start! The list of names and achievements are enormous! In no particular order:
Sir George Gore 1850: British aristo hunting in America. Stayed there for about 3 years and killed 2000 buffalo, 150 bears, 1600 dear and elk and thousands of wolves, coyotes, mountain sheep etc.

Once again irrelevant!

Btw, out of a herd of 40 million bison, by the beginning of the 20th century only 1000 survived. The reason for the slaughter? Land acquisition! The Native American’s way of life was destroyed and the tribes were confined to reservations and all was done for the love of animals. Of course Hollywood presents us with a different picture; the Native Indians as the savage villains and the white man the law enforcer and the civilizer! Like the Cypriots described by the various bird protectors as criminals and Mafiosi.

Absolute rubbish!

Americans too have been targeted by the very same conservationists. In fact, they have been targeted more so because they have not had just one or two isolated ecological disasters but several!

Lord Delamere, late 19th early 20th century in West Africa went about in clearing his lands of wild animals by using his gatling gun slaughtering them in their thousands.

Oh boy! 19th Century hey!

Get with the times. attitudes have changed drastically since then.

Theodore Roosevelt, US President in 1909 went safari in West Africa and stayed there for one year killing 11000 animals; donated a collection to the Smithsonian Institute.

1909!

Once again it's all about the attitudes of the time, and I am sure conservation was not as big an issue then as it is now.

“Samaki” Salman in his obituary in the Uganda Journal March 1953, Captain Pintman praised him as a great hunter for killing 4000 bull elephants!!
While a lesser hunter, James H. Sutherland, killed a meagre 1200 bull elephants from 1900 onwards.
That’s only the very tip of the iceberg, the very-very few here among the thousands of lesser hunters. Some of them have been turned into Hollywood heroes and others, after they had their fill of blood, turned safari guides and environmentalists!! Does it remind one of the present at all?

Irrelevant!

What would happen today if the same thing occurred. Illegal poaching does occur in Africa to this day, but the Authorities and Conservationists are working very hard to stop it.

In India the same thing happened. Viceroys, princes, kings, and a large numbers of lesser mortals, even the present queen, went trophy hunting 1963. From 1870 until the British left India hunting went on. The kills were massive. Tigers, rhinos, bears, nimrods, buffalo, bison, wild sheep and goat, you name it was killed. Had the kills any effect on the species? You bet it had; not only on the species but on the attitude of the local people towards the species changed for the worst.

Still irrelevant!

Has nothing to do with illegal Bird Trapping in Cyprus.

However, out of this massacre, Tarzan the epitome of the European friend of the animals was borne. Animals and birds rushed to his calling; out of fear or love for him?

Irrelevant!

Not to be forgotten here are the industries established for wild life exploitation. Skins of all kinds, pelts, feathers you name it was exploited in massive quantities not for the love of animals but for profit.
Profit as a motivating factor is in fact destroying the environment and what ever else lives in it.

Conservationists around the world have been active against this, not just Bird Trapping in Cyprus. Conservationists are also very active in North America, Australia and Europe.

One does not justify the other.

Would birds and animals be safer now if the Cypriot hunting practices were to be removed from the hunting equation?

It would mean that Cyprus will be better able to conserve Bird Populations across the island!

And just one more example of animal treatment; this one is from Britain from Aunt Kate’s Home Treasury book published at the beginning of the 20th century. (no date)
Its an advice of how to get rid of unwanted cats she writes “place half a teaspoonful of pure cyanide of potassium (well back) on the tongue, and the animal will die instantly” She does not though advocates drowning “on several grounds but more especially from the fact that the carcase is naturally left floating in water and far from sanitary in the eyes of the County Councils” Charming!
This method of getting rid of cats, drowning, was very common in rural areas of Europe until the mid 20th century perhaps later.

Do the Europeans like animals? Are they environmentalists? Is the picture they painted of themselves real or imaginary? Does the image they present have any influence on the perception others have of them?

Iconoclasts wanted!!!

Happy New Year to all!

What does this have to with Illegal Bird Trapping?

Vets put down cats and dogs by lethal injection all the time.

Schnowoozer, you have a major chip on your shoulder but I will try and cure your affliction!

Just because some conservationists are active in Cyprus does not mean that there is a campaign against the island. Most of these conservationists are actually Cypriot and there are also some Brits and some Russians as well. We should be thankful that there are a few people around willing to sacrifice their time and energy to preserve Bird populations in Cyprus.

[supporttheunderdog]

The dual personality of subulturn has been debated elsewhere.

I have not attacked legal hunting in Cyprus. I have merely extended subulturn's irrelevant observations on Legal hunting to Cyprus. If it is wrong elsewhere it is wrong here. I do not however say it is wrong. However If it will make you feel happier I whole heartedly condemn poaching and illegal hunting whatever is so hunted / poached illegally no matter where it happens. Same for other acts of animal cruelty. The point of the debate however is the here and now of Cyprus. Not what happens elsewhere. That is just an irrelevant diversionary tactic by you and Subulturn, whoever he is/ might also be.

Also I don't think anyone has branded innocent Cypriots for things they have not done. That is your paranoia. What has been attacked are the illegal trappers and those who condone such activities.

[The subaltern]

Do not read this if you dislike “dissertations” (erol66)or have the attention span of ambelobouli. .

Ambeloboulia trapping has been a tradition in Cyprus, as it has been previously mentioned, since the 5th century BC. Evidence and reporting of ambeloboulia trapping from the middle ages onwards can be found in Exerpta Cypria. Any one interested can download the book free from the internet.

From that time onwards bird trapping was mentioned more frequently and after the British occupation of Cyprus, regularly by mostly British travellers.

Mrs Bracy in her book Sunshine and storm in the east 1880, reports “for dinner this evening we had some of the beccaficos, or preserved birds, which are so well known in this parts, Delicious fat little morsels they would be….even in the classical ages they were famed”

No one had made negative comments about the tradition until Bannerman, 1958, who called it “barbaric” and by extension those practising it barbarians.
Of course Bannerman was writing his book, Birds of Cyprus, during the Cypriot struggle against the Brits! His outburst could be put down to the Cypriots challenge against British rule etc. His comment though stuck and repeated ad infinitum by the bird champions.
He says “the unfortunate little bird (blackcap) which is so much relished by the Cypriots that literally thousands find their way to the purveyors of beccaficos through the barbarous medium of lime sticks”

Lawrence Durrell on the other hand, in his book Bitter lemons 1957 present us with a different picture; Clitos’s taverna in Kyrenia where Clito “produced some pickled beccafico which I had read about but never tasted, and together we crunched the small birds to bits as we tasted the wines of Cyprus and sagely assessed them” We have two different views about the same bird.

However, William Forwood in his book Cyprus invitation 1971 writes: “At Paralimni there are still Papagenos who lime their trees in preparation for the catch. In September and October some five thousand fat and heavy migrants passing south through the island ends up in vinegar. During the spring the catch drops sharply because the birds are lighter and more agile. The pages of The Times have lately registered Anglo-Saxon indignation at the restoration of this practice in Italy. It is argued that the balance of nature demand the conservation of little birds in life rather than pickle; In the case of Paralimni the rate of casualties is probably too low to disturb the natural laws”

An interesting change of tone and attitude towards the birds is registered here. All of a sudden there is an interest in the balance of nature. One wonders who disturbed it in the first place! Here we have the first blame game been registered.
The blame will be increasing with the passage of time.
Here the author reports of some five thousand birds been caught at Baralimni between Sept and Oct, at a time when trapping was not illegal and people could have talk much more openly to the author about their catch with out fear of persecution and at a village where ambeloboulia were recorded been trapped since the middle ages and where more people than now were involve in trapping.
Similarly the numbers quoted by Bannerman is “literally thousands”. A bird observer with an attitude cannot be dismissed as unreliable.

If some one is at all familiar with the millions recorded now by the bird protectors, may wonder how come this massive increase despite the trappers been watched
at all times? Have trappers’ numbers increased since then? Has their trapping technology developed to such an extent that it has become much more effective in catching birds? Have the birds arriving to Cyprus increased in numbers thus making it possible to catch more of them? Of course none of the above happened; it is just not logical unless the authors above are lying.
Yet the author, Foorwood, is interested in birds and the balance of nature; if he was likely to lie he was more likely to exaggerate the numbers caught while Bannerman made it very clear that he considers trapping as “barbaric” therefore he could have exaggerated if he wanted to.

This of course in a curious way, confirms the probable truth of the quoted numbers by the above authors if we consider the price for 12 birds costing 80 euros as so often been quoted by the bird lobbies while millions are caught. Therefore the millions they claim been trapped cannot possibly be true. It fact it may be nearer to what has been reported by Bannerman and Forwood.

However, this particular author, Forwood, one can reasonably suppose was a witness of bird trapping, comments that the numbers caught at Paralimni may be too low to have an effect on the species which in fact is the case, since the numbers of blackcaps are, according to BirdLife international, increasing in number in Europe, therefore Bannerman and Forwood may be nearer to the truth than the bird protectors quoting numbers of millions.

That was of course 1971. In the mean time things have changed. 1974 the law for the protection of birds was enacted at a time when Cyprus was in turmoil with out consultation or any consideration of the effects the law was likely to have on the local population or on the species it was suppose to protect. It was enacted in order to satisfy the Western European “concerns” on wild life.

This has provided the bird protection lobbies with what they wanted; a law enacted in recognising the fact that Cypriots contribute to the reduction of the bird species.
The depletion of bird numbers as a result, has become a Cyprus problem. We see here the shifting of blame from the culprit on to “others” with out actually establishing what contribution the “others” are making towards species reduction.

The law and the effect of trapping on bird species have become the mantra and the corner stones of the bird lobby in order to persecute a tradition and its practitioners.

Their argument is: trapping is illegal and trapping contributes to bird depletion.
Trapping is illegal, is actually true as things stand at the moment; but if the law contravenes the traditions and is not obeyed by those is meant to control then there is something wrong with the law or the law is not working. In fact it has created a “criminal” class overnight that has never existed before. (Criminal/s is constantly used by the bird lobby). If this is the case then the law ought to be repealed.

The other argument produced, is that trappers cause bird depletion. How true is this argument? How could birds be depleted by a tradition that has been going on for so long? Why did it not happen before when the tradition was at its prime? Therefore the depletion must be due to other causes. What are they, where do they occur, what are the causes, and why, and who is responsible? If the bird depletion is cause by non Cypriots then the law was wrongly enacted.

Under the pretext of bird protection and using the law as a justification, an army of bird protectors’ dissent into Cyprus in autumn and spring, to do battle with the trappers not only ignoring property right but demand from the police to respond to their calls immediately. (See CABS “Field report: Autumn 2011 Bird Protection Camp, 23 Sept-2 Oct 2011) They have in effect become an auxiliary police force with powers to enter property, confiscate or even destroy property on the pretext that is saving birds! (For some of their exploits see Phileleftheros 7 Oct 2011 and 17 Oct 2011). Of course they denied they done anything wrong. (See the above report) As a Cypriot I find this sort of behaviour by self appointed policemen beyond belief and an embracement to the Cypriot state for allowing foreign individuals to behave as police.

The law and the depletion of bird numbers are not the only factors used in support of their claims that the Cypriots cause the depletion of birds. They resort to character assassination (See my previous posts) and outright lies.
For example, the Daily Mail in reported on 23/12/2009 that “Hundreds of thousands of robins from the UK are been killed illegally (note the illegally; it crops everywhere) in Cyprus after migrating south for the winter” In fact only a small number of British robins, usually females, migrate to Europe mainly to Portugal and Spain.
In order to appeal to the British sentiments, please note just before Xmas where the image of the robin is on most homes mantelpiece and where limstick trapping is not practise. That’s propaganda for you.

We can go on for ever quoting lies and disinformation by all those purportedly interested in saving birds. There is in fact an industry of disinformation that churns out “news” by the cartload such as bird trapping, numbers, tables, kinds of birds, etc

PS My last post was aimed at demonstrating the historical continuity of animal cruelty and exploitation by the “Civilised West”. It was correctly spotted by the GIC and commented upon. Paphitis though got the wrong end of the stick. Better next time eh? And try to avoid fish and chips.

BTW This is a critic of what is churned out by the bird champions against the Cypriots and Cypriot society. We are though far from perfect. Constructive criticism is welcome and I am sure Cypriots will accept it.

Propaganda and hypocrisy ought to be exposed.

[erolz66]

Has their trapping technology developed to such an extent that it has become much more effective in catching birds?

This is exactly what has happened. The use of mist nets along with things like taped recordings of bird calls to attract the birds into the nets has NO 'tradition' to it what so ever and changes the amount of damage done from illegal bird trapping by orders of magnitude.

However, this particular author, Forwood, one can reasonably suppose was a witness of bird trapping, comments that the numbers caught at Paralimni may be too low to have an effect on the species which in fact is the case, since the numbers of blackcaps are, according to BirdLife international, increasing in number in Europe, therefore Bannerman and Forwood may be nearer to the truth than the bird protectors quoting numbers of millions.

Are you related to GiG because you display exactly the same ability she does to just ignore what ever you like. How many times does it have to be said. The damage from illegal bird trapping is not to the one species of black caps. The problem is the indiscriminate nature that traps not JUST black caps but ALSO other species that ARE endangered, some so endangered that even the loss of a small numbers has a material affect. So once more - if the ONLY birds killed by illegal trapping via mist nets and lime sticks were black caps there would be no issue but this is NOT the case.

The law and the effect of trapping on bird species have become the mantra and the corner stones of the bird lobby in order to persecute a tradition and its practitioners.

The law is a requirement of EU entry. The RoC could have negotiated a delay but it could not refuse to enact the law ever and still gain entry to the EU. You might like to consider why it is illegal at an EU level and why enacting such laws is a requirement of EU entry.

Trapping is illegal, is actually true as things stand at the moment; but if the law contravenes the traditions and is not obeyed by those is meant to control then there is something wrong with the law or the law is not working. In fact it has created a “criminal” class overnight that has never existed before. (Criminal/s is constantly used by the bird lobby). If this is the case then the law ought to be repealed.

See above - the law can not be repealed short of leaving the EU. Your analysis re criminality is all wrong as well. When it became criminal to trap birds via these means then a NEW element moved in, a criminal element that just were not interested before. Just like with prohibition in the USA historically. It is just a FACT that today in some areas illegal bird trapping is control by organised criminal gangs that control all the criminal activity in those areas.

The other argument produced, is that trappers cause bird depletion. How true is this argument? How could birds be depleted by a tradition that has been going on for so long?

Because HOW trapping is done today is totally different from how it was done 100 years ago. Because WHY it is done today is totally different from 100 years ago. Because WHO does it today is totally different from 100 years ago. And because all the other pressures on ENDANGERED species (not black caps but those species that are endangered) have increased and continue to increase compared to 100 years ago.

You have been told all this before but just like GiG, you have no interest in the truth, only in your own propaganda.

[miltiades]

erolz66,
I agree entirely with your well expressed views.

[Paphitis]

I also agree with Erolz 100%.

It is a real shame that some Cypriots get very defensive at such subjects.

[B25]

I find Elroz input very offensive and hypocritical.

They are illegally holding under occupation my country and he had the audacity to chastise us on bird trapping. A crock of shit, i have no respect he should concentrate getting the f turks out than to constantly belittle my fellow countrymen. Hade assirktir.

[erolz66]

I find Elroz input very offensive and hypocritical.

They are illegally holding under occupation my country and he had the audacity to chastise us on bird trapping. A crock of shit, i have no respect he should concentrate getting the f turks out than to constantly belittle my fellow countrymen. Hade assirktir.

Who is this Elroz person you keep referring to ?

I am a Cypriot, legally, by birth right and in my heart. I live 1/2 a km from the village my father grew up in. I did not cause the Cyprus problem nor can I solve it. The issue of species depletion aggravated by illegal bird trapping, as practiced today in Cyprus, knows no borders. I find it offensive that you think I have no right as a Cypriots to care about this issue. I find it pathetic that you link this issue that is nothing to do with the politics of Cyprus to the Cyprus problem and use that as some kind of excuse to deny our collective responsibilities to future generations to come. You may only care about your propaganda agenda and nothing else but thankfully not all Cypriots are so myopic as you.

[miltiades]

erolz66, you may rest assured that the vast majority of G/Cs do not share the inflammatory comments aired by B25, Yes we want the Turkish troops out of Cyprus, yes we want a united island but we do want our T/C compatriots who have every right to be on the island to feel safe with such bloody fanatics around.

As a Cypriot myself I can tell you that you are my compatriot, you have the same rights to call this island your homeland as I have.

[miltiades]

Such blatant barbarity, such disregard of animal life :





Λευκωσία: Η οργάνωση ΚΙΒΩΤΟΣ καταγγέλλει νέο περιστατικό κακομεταχείρισης ζώων και συγκεκριμένα κυνηγετικών σκύλων που ήταν αιχμάλωτοι σε κλουβί και έτρωγαν άλλον σκύλο.

«Η οργάνωση ΚΙΒΩΤΟΣ καταδικάζει με όλη τη δύναμη της ψυχής της το νέο κρούσμα κακομεταχειρίσεις σκύλων,» οι οποίοι βρέθηκαν από εθελοντές στην περιοχή της Λάρνακας, αναφέρεται στη σχετική ανακοίνωση.

Αναφέρει ότι κυνηγετικοί σκύλοι αφέθηκαν στο έλεος του Θεού, χωρίς φαγητό και φροντίδα, στη Λάρνακα. Εθελοντές εντόπισαν ένα κλουβί με πέντε σκύλους κυνηγητικούς και ο ένας είχε ήδη πεθάνει και οι άλλοι τέσσερεις άρχισαν και τον έτρωγαν.

Ειδοποιήθηκαν η αστυνομία και οι κτηνιατρικές Υπηρεσίες, που επισκέφθηκαν το χώρο.

«Οι εθελοντές έδωσαν καταθέσεις και η αστυνομία εξετάζει την περίπτωση για να βρει τον ούτω καλούμενο ιδιοκτήτη και να του προσάψουν κατηγορίες» γράφει η ανακοίνωση.

Ο Πρόεδρος της οργάνωσης Κυριάκος Κυριάκου ζητά τη λήψη μέτρων, σημειώνοντας ότι κάποιοι πρέπει να πληρώσουν και να σταματήσει αυτή η συμπεριφορά απέναντι στα ανυπεράσπιστα ζώα.


- See more at: http://www.philenews.com/el-gr/koinonia ... qOJRD.dpuf