Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

I wonder how many of those who think Greece should be let off the hook or Greece is innocent of the 1974 debacle, are refugees and were present throughout the hostilities...

Yes, I had a suspicion that none of Greece's supporters from here have experienced what I have... no surprises there!

[Get Real!]

NO, We do not punish Greece,

That's easy for you to say... house intact, village intact... nice one!

[Maximus]

I would also like to know, from those who blame Greece, what a suitable punishment is for Greece?

Hmm… let’s see now, maybe this will answer your question:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... w-low.html

I take it that you think Greece should pay war repatriations to Cyprus? I think that this form of punishment is reserved for Turkey, as well as a full withdrawal from Cyprus.

It is Turkey who is in possession of the northern third of Cyprus, along with Greek Cypriot property, who plundered her way through by way of invasion.

[Get Real!]

I take it that you think Greece should pay war repatriations to Cyprus? I think that this form of punishment is reserved for Turkey,

BOTH are responsible for reparations.

In my opinion it’s a 50-50 because the one who started it is as guilty as the one they made it possible for continuing it!

[Simon]

The problem with your stance Simon and of those who agree with you, is that if we are to pass the blame to individuals such as “the junta did it” or “Saddam did it” or “Papadopoulos did it” and wash Greece’s hands clean then exactly the same can be applied for Turkey!

So by the same token “Bulent Ecevit did it” or if you prefer “the American-backed Turkish regime did it”, or a whole bunch of other individuals and/or groupings that one can conjure up as an excuse!

So to sum this up, by letting Greece off the hook we are also letting Turkey off the hook which results in a slap in the face to the victims of Cyprus.

GR, I accept that Greece has a lot to answer for. My point is, to simply say it was all Greece's fault is naive. And in any event, it is not necessarily the same as Turkey, because the Greeks did not democratically elect the junta. Therefore, the junta were not governing through the will of the Greek people, or in my view, in the name of the Greek people. The coup did not have the widespread support of the Greek people, in the way that the invasion had the support of the Turkish people. So there is a clear distinction.

Looking at the matter maturely, there were many reasons Cyprus was partitioned, and Greece played its part (as a pawn of the US). This does not absolve Greece of responsibility, of course not, but what about the GCs that supported the junta and the coup? What about the machinations of the US and Britain? What about Turkey's policy towards Cyprus and its aim of partition? What about the long held aspiration of enosis? What about the lack of action from the Soviet Union? What about the treachery of the TCs etc etc?

I know you are massively disappointed with Greece, but try to achieve some balance in your views, that is all I am saying.

It is far more complicated than some make out.

[Get Real!]

The problem with your stance Simon and of those who agree with you, is that if we are to pass the blame to individuals such as “the junta did it” or “Saddam did it” or “Papadopoulos did it” and wash Greece’s hands clean then exactly the same can be applied for Turkey!

So by the same token “Bulent Ecevit did it” or if you prefer “the American-backed Turkish regime did it”, or a whole bunch of other individuals and/or groupings that one can conjure up as an excuse!

So to sum this up, by letting Greece off the hook we are also letting Turkey off the hook which results in a slap in the face to the victims of Cyprus.

GR, I accept that Greece has a lot to answer for. My point is, to simply say it was all Greece's fault is naive. And in any event, it is not necessarily the same as Turkey, because the Greeks did not democratically elect the junta. Therefore, the junta were not governing through the will of the Greek people, or in my view, in the name of the Greek people. The coup did not have the widespread support of the Greek people, in the way that the invasion had the support of the Turkish people. So there is a clear distinction.

Looking at the matter maturely, there were many reasons Cyprus was partitioned, and Greece played its part (as a pawn of the US). This does not absolve Greece of responsibility, of course not, but what about the GCs that supported the junta and the coup? What about the machinations of the US and Britain? What about Turkey's policy towards Cyprus and its aim of partition? What about the long held aspiration of enosis? What about the lack of action from the Soviet Union? What about the treachery of the TCs etc etc?

I know you are massively disappointed with Greece, but try to achieve some balance in your views, that is all I am saying.

It is far more complicated than some make out.

You just don’t get it do you? Here it is AGAIN in simple English:

If Greece can be exonerated from the events of 1974 then you will have ALSO knowingly or unknowingly, exonerated Turkey!

Do you understand this simple premise and the dangers of it?

It doesn’t seem like you lot do!

[Simon]

My own view, just for the record, is that Greece should have declared war against Turkey following the collapse of the junta. Once a democratically elected government was restored, Greece should have given Turkey an ultimatum, along the following lines:

Makarios is still alive. The coup failed and he is still the President of the Republic. The Junta has collapsed, enosis is dead. There is no further need for Turkish troops to be stationed in Cyprus. The Constitution of Cyprus makes clear that the guarantor powers must preserve the status quo. This has now been achieved. Therefore, Turkish troops must leave Cyprus within xxx number of days. If not, then Turkey's occupation is a casus belli for Greece.

This is similar to the ultimatum Turkey gave to Greece when Greece had more than 10,000 troops stationed on the island in the 1960s. The Greek troops left. The same ultimatum should have been given to Turkey. No doubt Turkey would have shown Greece the middle finger. Greece (sharing a huge responsibility for the occupation) should have then gone to war. Even had Greece lost (which, given Greece's military capabilities at the time was by no means certain (they spent almost as much as Turkey on their military back then)) it would have at least shown the GCs that Greece had not simply abandoned them and they did all they could for Cyprus following their own failures. Alas, it never happened.

We do not truly understand the reasons for this, but as aforementioned, there are clear indications that the US came down strongly on the side of Turkey.

[Simon]

The problem with your stance Simon and of those who agree with you, is that if we are to pass the blame to individuals such as “the junta did it” or “Saddam did it” or “Papadopoulos did it” and wash Greece’s hands clean then exactly the same can be applied for Turkey!

So by the same token “Bulent Ecevit did it” or if you prefer “the American-backed Turkish regime did it”, or a whole bunch of other individuals and/or groupings that one can conjure up as an excuse!

So to sum this up, by letting Greece off the hook we are also letting Turkey off the hook which results in a slap in the face to the victims of Cyprus.

GR, I accept that Greece has a lot to answer for. My point is, to simply say it was all Greece's fault is naive. And in any event, it is not necessarily the same as Turkey, because the Greeks did not democratically elect the junta. Therefore, the junta were not governing through the will of the Greek people, or in my view, in the name of the Greek people. The coup did not have the widespread support of the Greek people, in the way that the invasion had the support of the Turkish people. So there is a clear distinction.

Looking at the matter maturely, there were many reasons Cyprus was partitioned, and Greece played its part (as a pawn of the US). This does not absolve Greece of responsibility, of course not, but what about the GCs that supported the junta and the coup? What about the machinations of the US and Britain? What about Turkey's policy towards Cyprus and its aim of partition? What about the long held aspiration of enosis? What about the lack of action from the Soviet Union? What about the treachery of the TCs etc etc?

I know you are massively disappointed with Greece, but try to achieve some balance in your views, that is all I am saying.

It is far more complicated than some make out.

You just don’t get it do you? Here it is AGAIN in simple English:

If Greece can be exonerated from the events of 1974 then you will have ALSO knowingly or unknowingly, exonerated Turkey!

Do you understand this simple premise and the dangers of it?

It doesn’t seem like you lot do!

I understand perfectly, but it seems that you have not understood, or read my post carefully enough. I have clearly set out why I believe you are wrong to draw such a comparison and conclusion. Further, I have clearly stated that Greece does share some of the blame.

I think you ought to consider that by putting so much of the blame on Greece, it is you who is actually exonerating the Turkish response and continuing occupation?

[GreekIslandGirl]

If Greece can be exonerated from the events of 1974 then you will have ALSO knowingly or unknowingly, exonerated Turkey!

Those responsible for the coup were punished; NONE were exonerated. What's your point? Do you want to keep reminding us that Cyprus only punished one GC out of hundreds responsible for the coup?

Turkey didn't carry out a coup. It's entirely different. It invaded and remains an enemy occupier. Do you seriously think there is any comparison, or that Turkey whilst in occupation deserves any form of exoneration?

[Get Real!]

Let me remind you fools:

Greece VIOLATED the stupid Treaty of Guarantee (that they stupidly signed along with all the other signatories) thereby declaring a Cyprus OPEN SEASON for all!

Do you fully comprehend the repercussions of Greece’s violation of this treaty?

Do you realize that in doing so, Greece rendered a Turkish invasion of Cyprus PERFECTLY LEGAL???

And then after this you think you can try Turkey while Greece washes her hands clean in a court of law?

How old are you people anyway?

Therefore, the only way you can seek justice is by having Greece and Turkey SIDE BY SIDE in an international court of law for CONSPIRING against Cyprus to cause all this!

See how it all makes perfect LEGAL sense now and do you see how you CANNOT exonerate one without exonerating the other?

Now do you realise why the international community has done nothing so far? It's because we (GCs) have been foolishly exonerating Greece all these decades thereby making JUSTICE impossible!!!