Cyprus-Forum.com

[Jerry]

Really, really, I imagine you never believed the Berlin Wall would come down. Permanent derogations are a two-way street, would you be happy for Cyprus have an open door for mainland Turks to migrate to Cyprus?

Turkey isn't going to join the EU, Jerry. Not anytime soon. If ever. So why should Cyprus impose permanent derogations now on its citizens? This is really not on the agenda despite what the Turkey wonks at the ICG would have you think.

Limited temporary derogations most people would accept but we could deal with the issue of Turkish enlargement, like the rest of the EU, if and when it occurs.

For a Cypriot perspective...

http://www.cceia.unic.ac.cy/index.php?o ... Itemid=156

If Turkey believes it will never join the EU then Cyprus is buggered, the status quo will continue until the north is so Turkified that a creeping recognition may emerge. In the event of a solution your limited temporary derogations will not stop second generation mainlanders born in the north moving south.

I believe the views of James Ker-Lindsay, Hubert Faustman and Fiona Mullen (check their credentials) in the link I provided are very relevant but you are quite entitled to disagree with them.

[Viewpoint]

demon which derogation are you afraid of?

Permanent derogations on free movement under the EU acquis: the right for all Cypriot citizens to live, work and purchase property anywhere on the island.

This would only be temporary and maybe not even come into play if the numbers that move north show big numbers....do you understand the risk a big influx of GCs into the north state would bring with it? cannot you not appreciate this and acknowledge that a transition period is necessary to build trust confidence and understanding.

[Viewpoint]

demon which derogation are you afraid of?

Permanent derogations on free movement under the EU acquis: the right for Cypriot citizens to live, work and purchase property anywhere on the island.

In addition, the right to vote, freedom of speech and free from Turkish military troops, illegal settlers and any Turkish guarantor rights. For starters.

Right to vote/ no problem
freedom of speech/ no problem
TA leaves/ no problem
Settlers depart/ allowing for a certain number to stay as agreed previously
Turkish Guarantor rights/ RedLine...big problem The TCs will find it very difficult to let this go, maybe if concrete alternatives were put forward compromise could be achieved.

Show now on the other foot;

No Greek or GC army?
No Greek Guaranotr rights
and return of people granted Citizenship of the "RoC" after agreeing a number.
Balance in power in the upper house.

[Demonax]

demon which derogation are you afraid of?

Permanent derogations on free movement under the EU acquis: the right for all Cypriot citizens to live, work and purchase property anywhere on the island.

This would only be temporary and maybe not even come into play if the numbers that move north show big numbers....do you understand the risk a big influx of GCs into the north state would bring with it? cannot you not appreciate this and acknowledge that a transition period is necessary to build trust confidence and understanding.

The best way to overcome a big influx of GCs into the northern zone in a federated state is to return as much territory and property to the legal owners and to the southern area. If the TCs are genuinely concerned about being overwhelmed then they need to return as large a chunk of territory as possible. The less land returned the more problems for the TCs in time as GCs will inevitably use freedom of movement to take back what they feel rightly belongs to them. Only if as much land is returned as possible, will you then be able to go to the EU and GCs and ask for derogations. Your best option then is a small north zone with as few GC properties as possible...

[Demonax]

If Turkey believes it will never join the EU then Cyprus is buggered, the status quo will continue until the north is so Turkified that a creeping recognition may emerge. In the event of a solution your limited temporary derogations will not stop second generation mainlanders born in the north moving south.

I believe the views of James Ker-Lindsay, Hubert Faustman and Fiona Mullen (check their credentials) in the link I provided are very relevant but you are quite entitled to disagree with them.

On the EU: I don't believe the current Turkish leadership thinks it has a chance of joining the EU, but they are going through the motions of EU accession mainly to keep foreign investors on board. Just as they are going through the motions of wanting to solve the Cyprus 'problem'.

As for the ICG, I do disagree with them and have no time at all for Ker-Lindsay in particular. His entire thesis is based on the flawed premise that the Cyprus 'problem' is mainly an inter-communal conflict, ignoring largely the malevolent intentions of Turkey and downplaying the role of other foreign powers in Cyprus.

I also recall a horrific article he wrote recently in which he more or less told GCs to get over the Turkish invasion, stop playing what he called the 'victim card' and move on from the occupation. Incredible!

Basically, if Ker-Lindsay is in favour of it, then GCs would be well advised to do the opposite.

Personally, I find the ICG analyses seriously questionable, patronising and offensive. Recently they've been pushing partition as the 'best solution' which tells you all you need to know really.

But like you say, we're all entitled to our opinion.

[B25]

demon which derogation are you afraid of?

Permanent derogations on free movement under the EU acquis: the right for all Cypriot citizens to live, work and purchase property anywhere on the island.

This would only be temporary and maybe not even come into play if the numbers that move north show big numbers....do you understand the risk a big influx of GCs into the north state would bring with it? cannot you not appreciate this and acknowledge that a transition period is necessary to build trust confidence and understanding.

The best way to overcome a big influx of GCs into the northern zone in a federated state is to return as much territory and property to the legal owners and to the southern area. If the TCs are genuinely concerned about being overwhelmed then they need to return as large a chunk of territory as possible. The less land returned the more problems for the TCs in time as GCs will inevitably use freedom of movement to take back what they feel rightly belongs to them. Only if as much land is returned as possible, will you then be able to go to the EU and GCs and ask for derogations. Your best option then is a small north zone with as few GC properties as possible...

Err, que Kikapu.

[Viewpoint]

demon which derogation are you afraid of?

Permanent derogations on free movement under the EU acquis: the right for all Cypriot citizens to live, work and purchase property anywhere on the island.

This would only be temporary and maybe not even come into play if the numbers that move north show big numbers....do you understand the risk a big influx of GCs into the north state would bring with it? cannot you not appreciate this and acknowledge that a transition period is necessary to build trust confidence and understanding.

The best way to overcome a big influx of GCs into the northern zone in a federated state is to return as much territory and property to the legal owners and to the southern area. If the TCs are genuinely concerned about being overwhelmed then they need to return as large a chunk of territory as possible. The less land returned the more problems for the TCs in time as GCs will inevitably use freedom of movement to take back what they feel rightly belongs to them. Only if as much land is returned as possible, will you then be able to go to the EU and GCs and ask for derogations. Your best option then is a small north zone with as few GC properties as possible...

With the freedom to move and settle where ever Cypriots wish isnt this a far greater danger which can easily be manipulated to the benefit of the GCs, the TCs will never take this leap of faith hoping for the best....its far better to take a risk at 27% and bring about a voting system that allows a balance between the 2 states in the upper house that cannot be manipulated by moving populations from one state to another.

[Maximus]

demon which derogation are you afraid of?

Permanent derogations on free movement under the EU acquis: the right for all Cypriot citizens to live, work and purchase property anywhere on the island.

This would only be temporary and maybe not even come into play if the numbers that move north show big numbers....do you understand the risk a big influx of GCs into the north state would bring with it? cannot you not appreciate this and acknowledge that a transition period is necessary to build trust confidence and understanding.

The best way to overcome a big influx of GCs into the northern zone in a federated state is to return as much territory and property to the legal owners and to the southern area. If the TCs are genuinely concerned about being overwhelmed then they need to return as large a chunk of territory as possible. The less land returned the more problems for the TCs in time as GCs will inevitably use freedom of movement to take back what they feel rightly belongs to them. Only if as much land is returned as possible, will you then be able to go to the EU and GCs and ask for derogations. Your best option then is a small north zone with as few GC properties as possible...

With the freedom to move and settle where ever Cypriots wish isnt this a far greater danger which can easily be manipulated to the benefit of the GCs, the TCs will never take this leap of faith hoping for the best....its far better to take a risk at 27% and bring about a voting system that allows a balance between the 2 states in the upper house that cannot be manipulated by moving populations from one state to another.

What, like the Turkish population illegally moving to occupied Cyprus?

I know, I have the best idea (and the correct one), just move back to Turkey and all your worries and ours will be over. We will solve the "Cyprus problem" too, its so simple.

[Lordo]

demon which derogation are you afraid of?

Permanent derogations on free movement under the EU acquis: the right for Cypriot citizens to live, work and purchase property anywhere on the island.

In addition, the right to vote, freedom of speech and free from Turkish military troops, illegal settlers and any Turkish guarantor rights. For starters.

Right to vote/ no problem
freedom of speech/ no problem
TA leaves/ no problem
Settlers depart/ allowing for a certain number to stay as agreed previously
Turkish Guarantor rights/ RedLine...big problem The TCs will find it very difficult to let this go, maybe if concrete alternatives were put forward compromise could be achieved.

Show now on the other foot;

No Greek or GC army?
No Greek Guaranotr rights
and return of people granted Citizenship of the "RoC" after agreeing a number.
Balance in power in the upper house.

if we have terkish guarantee then we cannot accept the them not to have any greek guarantee. they are welcome to it.

[Viewpoint]

The best way to overcome a big influx of GCs into the northern zone in a federated state is to return as much territory and property to the legal owners and to the southern area. If the TCs are genuinely concerned about being overwhelmed then they need to return as large a chunk of territory as possible. The less land returned the more problems for the TCs in time as GCs will inevitably use freedom of movement to take back what they feel rightly belongs to them. Only if as much land is returned as possible, will you then be able to go to the EU and GCs and ask for derogations. Your best option then is a small north zone with as few GC properties as possible...

With the freedom to move and settle where ever Cypriots wish isnt this a far greater danger which can easily be manipulated to the benefit of the GCs, the TCs will never take this leap of faith hoping for the best....its far better to take a risk at 27% and bring about a voting system that allows a balance between the 2 states in the upper house that cannot be manipulated by moving populations from one state to another.

What, like the Turkish population illegally moving to occupied Cyprus?

I know, I have the best idea (and the correct one), just move back to Turkey and all your worries and ours will be over. We will solve the "Cyprus problem" too, its so simple.

Theres even a better move you guys can take by FO back to Greece to whom you wanted to gift our the whole island.