Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

I do understand the reasons why you do not want such a decision to be implemented, since it would spoil the aura of illgeality in which you are painting the TRNC. You want to have a monopoly over legality, and you do not like the the idea of TRNC contesting this role.

my god bg_turk. u give me the feeling sometimes that u believe that we do sth directly to hurt the tc bc we have increased satisfaction from their suffering. ofcource it is imprtant to keep TRNC illegal. bc as soon as it is legalised the problem is solved.

dont get me wrong here. i am also frustruted from the fact that we do our best to keep the TRNC illegal rather than sitting on the negotiating table. i am frustrated from stupid excuses ..we dont go talk bc they will have a flag sitting there. for smaller things we are stuborn here.
erdogans party was supposed to pay a visit to dysi party and they disagreed on how they would come to cyprus. for me the whole subject is stupid. for you , you can go on and accuse the gc for not recognising the TRNC bc we want to hurt the tc or we are racist or .....
the reality is though that both are stuborn when it comes to these things bc they are supposed to mean sth. or the media will make them mean sth. do you understand that we have people suffering, but whats more important is the airport they use. because it will be considered a political defeat in turkey if erdogans party comed to cyprus through larnaka airport ? and the same way it will be for us if the opposite happens. i know it is absurd but make an effort to understand: human stupidity is boundless.
so if such small things are imprtant how would you ever expect the gcs accepting a TRNC court?

we had once a whole discussion with vp on what can be done till the solution. there are somethings that can be done with no political costs which can also promote trust. there are some others that can only be solved through a solution, and land since it is closely connected to the bizonal bicomunal character of any plan is one of them. not to mention the main one.

besides there is a fundamental difference between kosovo and here. sth that obviously the kosovars accept...or?

Kosovo is part of the territory of Serbia and Montenegro, a member state of the Council of Europe.

come on. just answer me this: isnt this whole thing a political move ?

[BirKibrisli]

Cypezokyli,
Thank you for referring me to this thread.I don't know how I missed it.
I was really depressed reading this thread.People are not prepared to give anything a chance.How are we going to build trust if we approache everything with total suspicion.
Why don't we wait and see what kind of changes Talat comes up with?
I know all the GC arguments about the illegality of the TRNC and the need for a just solution overall,and I am sympathetic to those views.
But I am afraid this"all or nothing" attitude is what brought us to where we are.(ENOSIS or nothing,TAKSIM or death,you know what I mean)
And if we keep it up we will never find a solution.
And as always,the Cypriot people will be the losers.States can wait forever to achieve justice or peace but people cannot.They have a habit of dying by the time they reach 90.Why can't we let some people have some sort of closure in this life rather than he next? In the process we might learn to trust each other a bit more,which will bring a solution closer.I am with bg_turk on this one.Lets get out of our trenches,and start cooperating as Cypriots. I know Talat is doing it to get Turkey off the hook,but why can't we turn a blind I for once and not rub his nose in it.

[bg_turk]

come on. just answer me this: isnt this whole thing a political move ?

Of course it is, but it is a political move that will improve the situation for GC refugees nonetheless. Of course in terms of politics it will make life harder for the roc to accuse TRNC of illegality.

If you have lost your house, and you are given the chance to reclaim it, what do you care about politics?

I guess my problem is that I do not really understand your argument. Are you saying that the TRNC should not provide GCs with the means to return because such a move is politically motivated?

[bg_turk]

besides there is a fundamental difference between kosovo and here. sth that obviously the kosovars accept...or?

Kosovo is part of the territory of Serbia and Montenegro, a member state of the Council of Europe.

The two cases are very similar. Kosovo is legally part of Serbia and Montenegro, the partition is sustained by a foreign army (KFOR), whose intervention was provked by the hostile attitude of the serbian majority, yet the intervention has displaced many serbians from their homeland, and they cannot return to their homes, and are now refugees in the north.
Albanians demad outright independence, Serbia wants a unitary state, the international community supports a compromise solution of some time of autonomy within a federal state.

[cypezokyli]

Why don't we wait and see what kind of changes Talat comes up with?

ok birkibrrisli. lets wait. wait and hope.

But I am afraid this"all or nothing" attitude is what brought us to where we are

i am also afraid of that

i just tried to explain the gc view on this. and i argued that if a flag or an airport is so important that prevents two leaders from meeting, u can imagine how difficult it is when it comes to more important subjects.

lets wait and see komsu.

[cypezokyli]

just one more thing to add.
i hope u both agree that there is a whole big difference between land and money.

under the AP most of the gcs refuggees that would return would be under the gc state. that would have been done in a period between 6months to 3 years. the reason was clear. there are some people living in those places and they shouldnt be kicked out in the streets. what i am trying to say is that -perhaps excluding famagusta- for a gc to get back his land means someone else has to leave. and i would guess that the TRNC wouldnt to do that to its citizens. so we return back to money..

and a suggestion. if this law finally passes in order to get some gc to trust it, i guess titina should return.

u know birkbrisli...its snowing outside. why the hell is it so imprtant to sit in front of the computer screen and write these things...sometimes i feel that our lives would be so empty if we ever solved it a friend - a fierce yes-supporter - was in finland a week before the referendum and couldnt get on the net and was starving for some info. he send me a message at the time : how the hell to these finish people live without a cyprus problem?

[BirKibrisli]

just one more thing to add.
i hope u both agree that there is a whole big difference between land and money.

under the AP most of the gcs refuggees that would return would be under the gc state. that would have been done in a period between 6months to 3 years. the reason was clear. there are some people living in those places and they shouldnt be kicked out in the streets. what i am trying to say is that -perhaps excluding famagusta- for a gc to get back his land means someone else has to leave. and i would guess that the TRNC wouldnt to do that to its citizens. so we return back to money..

and a suggestion. if this law finally passes in order to get some gc to trust it, i guess titina should return.

u know birkbrisli...its snowing outside. why the hell is it so imprtant to sit in front of the computer screen and write these things...sometimes i feel that our lives would be so empty if we ever solved it a friend - a fierce yes-supporter - was in finland a week before the referendum and couldnt get on the net and was starving for some info. he send me a message at the time : how the hell to these finish people live without a cyprus problem?

These things have a way of working themselves out.If people were given a choice,they will do what suits them best.Judging by the forums I really don't thnik too many TCs will rush to settle in the South,or too many GCs will want to settle in the TC controlled areas.Most of our arguments are
hypothetical and emotional.To be realistic,I have to admit some form of federation is the best I can expect under the circumstances.My dream will never come true,and I probably have to get used to it.

One question: who is titana and where is she gone?
As to our lives becoming empty,if we solve the problem,that will be a very sweet dilemma to face when the time comes.I suspect we will be too busy rebuilding our lives adjusting to peace and harmony.
My life will change dramatically,as I will want to come back and start a new life in Cyprus.How and where will depend on the solution.Our lives will probably be less dramatic but much richer for our experiences during this sorry stage in our history/herstory.

[cypezokyli]

selam birkbrisli

To be realistic,I have to admit some form of federation is the best I can expect under the circumstances.My dream will never come true,and I probably have to get used to it.

it is indeed like that.

titina loizidou was the one who started the problem in the first case. i guess tires from our politicians doing nothing she decided to sue turkey in the ECHR. early 90s. she won after years of trials. she was supposed to get compensation and her land. after some years of delay if i am not mistaken she got (part or whole) of the compensation , but the land was not returned...bc the land problem wil be solved only under a comprehensive solution.
since then some other gcs sued turkey. i dont have a clue where these trials are at the point. if i am not mistaken - a lawyer could help us here - the ECHR in a way is not bounded by its past decisions. that is if it decided like that for titina loizidou case it can decide otherwise in the future. so each case can take years.
and now, after the referendum and the courts in the TRNC ....even longer.

after a point i am not sure if it makes much more sense to sue turkey, since the property is not returned . the first case was the important one, and gave political arguements.

[BirKibrisli]

Merhaba Komsu cypezokyli

after a point i am not sure if it makes much more sense to sue turkey, since the property is not returned . the first case was the important one, and gave political arguements

I agree.There are other risks of sueing.One is it might give Erdogan the excuse he needs to walk away from the accession talks.I believe he is a very relactant traveller on the European path,but sees little choice for now if he wants to break the Army's hold on the state.But by the time the general elections come around in Turkey in 2007,he might become very popular if he shows the finger to EU and Cyprus.
we can then kiss goddbye to a federal solution even.

[lysi]

How can we return to our land when it has been sold of to to dozy greedy british people ?
Also what can you do if the turks have built a casino or brothel on your land ? what can you do.