Cyprus-Forum.com

[Chrisswirl]

There would still be limited partition under the Annan plan, certainly there would be 2 "semi states" with one larger and weaker state connecting them. This is how all Cyprus solutions were agreed to be based on many years ago.

[Piratis]

But I like to think I am a realist.

This is how much realistic I believe your position is:

1)No solution soon. De facto partition remains for several years: quite realistic. Lets say 90% this is whats going to happen.

2)"TRNC" to be slowly accepted: Up to a point. Not a very high point though. To be recognized by the UN: 0%, to become another Taiwan: 5%.

3)The Turkish army to slowly evaporate: 0% . One of the main reasons Turkey is in Cyprus is a strategic one. If a solution is not found a very significant army presence will remain that will control everything in the "TRNC" just as it is now.

[Piratis]

There would still be limited partition under the Annan plan, certainly there would be 2 "semi states" with one larger and weaker state connecting them. This is how all Cyprus solutions were agreed to be based on many years ago.

No. I am sorry but we have never agreed for such thing. What we agreed is federation, like the USA for example. We never agreed for confederation let alone an association of two almost totally separate states as it was the case with the Annan plan.

[iskismet]

Chris - but the GCs rejected the Annan Plan - I don't think there will be another chance for them to vote again

Piratis - we are agreeing again!! on points 1 & 2. With more acceptance as time goes by.

Point3. Possibly, but my gut feeling is that with informal and then formal recognition (and continued stability from Turkey being a member of the EU) Turkey will gradually withdraw.

[Piratis]

Point3. Possibly, but my gut feeling is that with informal and then formal recognition

There will never be recognition in a way that will significantly change the lives of Turkish Cypriots. (and of course there will never be a formal recognition either).

Turkish Cypriots will remain in an unrecognized state until the balance of power will change and we will take back what rightfully belongs to us. As you know for Greeks, 30, 40 or 50 years are nothing.

You are very optimistic for your side, but I expect you not to be so by this time next year. Want a bet?

[iskismet]

No thank you I do not want to bet. I will reconsider when you apologise for your crass and moronic references to my dead mother.

A British general once said there would 'never' be a cannon that would shoot the distance between the Gibralter Straites. Since reading that I have always been reluctant to use the word 'never'.

I will tell you once again - it is not my side. Your problem is you don't listen! or take in what you read.

[Piratis]

I will reconsider when you apologise for your crass and moronic references to my dead mother.

Ok, I apologice. I didn't know she was dead when I made that comparison, sorry.

What I wanted to show to you was that Cyprus is something very important for us, something like our mother. So it is very offendive for us when some outsiders come and tell us what is better to do with our island. Not you , not anybody can tell me or any other Cypriot that we should forget about the nort part of our country.

I will tell you once again - it is not my side. Your problem is you don't listen! or take in what you read.

I am sorry but if its not your side how come and you support the Turkish position with such a passion? I don't know if you are Turkish or not, but in this forum you clearly chosen a side, you can't deny that.

[iskismet]

Piratis

I accept your apology but would point our that even if she hadn't been dead your remarks were offensive and unacceptable.

I am an outsider with an interest in Cyprus. Maybe one day I will tell you how deep that interest is. The point is I am independent and, hopefully, can see both sides. The more I involve myself in this type of forum the more I learn and the more I understand.

Am I biased? I am not sure of the answer to that, but you appear to think so. I try not to be.

I have not attempted to tell you what to do with your island and would never presume to do so. But I do have the right to ask reasonable questions without facing abuse - you pride yourself you live in a democracy and you (and others) should not be trying to deny others the same rights! If you or others need to swear or be abusive when replying it means you have lost the reason for the discussion and thus the argument.

It is important for you all to realise that asking searching questions does not mean I (or people like me) am 'for' you or 'against' you - it means I do not understand certain things and by asking I am also learning. Others reading the answers will also be learning.

.

[Chrisswirl]

I am an outsider with an interest in Cyprus. Maybe one day I will tell you how deep that interest is.

He's George Bush, he wants our oil!

He does know that we don't have any right?

As for the Annan Plan, it would of course be undemocratic to ask the Greeks to vote again and unfair on the Turks to change it without asking them again. So hopefully when Hippopotamus gets out of office, and when Denky is long gone, the Greeks and Turks will be able to do some real negotiating to find a viable solution.

[Piratis]

But I do have the right to ask reasonable questions without facing abuse - you pride yourself you live in a democracy and you (and others) should not be trying to deny others the same rights!

I never said that you didn't had the right. What I said (which you misunderstood), is that if for you is abusive to talk about the killing of your mother, it is as abusive for me to talk about the killing of my country.
It is like (and this is an example! don't take it personally again) your mother is sick and everybody is discussing on how she should be best treated so she will be cured, and then somebody comes and says "hey, if she just dies we can stop waisting our time with her. Let her die, its better for everybody that way". If euthanasia is the best way, then this is only our job to decide, and nobody can enforce it, or even suggest it (without being abusive) to us.

So hopefully when Hippopotamus gets out of office

Are you referring to our president? You know, Cleredes before the elections asked from Cypriots to elect him just until April so he will "solve" the Cyprus problem. You know the answer he got, right?

Papadopoulos represents the majority of Greek Cyprios, and his "no" represents an even greater majority.