Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

could u give examples of that mud?

[Agios Amvrosios]

If you had rejected the settlement earlier, before your accession treaty was realized, you wouldnot have entered the EU

BG Turk, in accepting the initial membership application of Cyprus, the EU made an opening statement that the Legal Government of Cyprus could not indefinitely be held hostage by the Turkish Occupation years before the Annan plan was even farted.

What is a bulgarian turk doing on this forum anyway?- how are you affected by the Cyprus problem?

[bg_turk]

Verheugen 22/04/2004:

European Union Commissioner responsible for enlargement Gunter Verheugen has called on Cyprus President Tassos Papadopoulos to honor a pledge he had given the EU to back a political settlement and said he felt ''personally cheated'' by Papadopoulos.
In an address to the European Parliament in Strasbourg, Verheugen also said that the EU expected Cyprus, that is to join the Union next week, to wage an impartial information campaign.

''What we expect of our member states and what we expect of those states that will be joining us in less than 10 days is the full backing for the fundamental principle of the European project as a peaceful project. We expect this of the government of the Republic of Cyprus too,'' he said.

Verheugen said that never before in the course of the Cyprus conflict had the EU been as close to a possible solution as now.

''We are just inches away from our objective. But I have to say that I have little hope left for our being able to push forward those last remaining few inches and I will explain why,'' he pointed out.

He said the EU was surprised by Papadopoulos' rejection of the UN solution plan (the Annan plan) and his call upon the population of the Greek part of the island to vote down the UN plan.

The Commissioner described this ''extremely regrettable course'' of events because there was an understanding that the EU would do everything to make Cyprus' accession possible and conversely the government of the Republic of Cyprus would do everything in its power to resolve the conflict.

''And under no circumstances was a resolution to the conflict to fall as a result of opposition from the Greek Cypriot authorities,'' Verheugen said, recalling that Papadopoulos had pledged that the Greek Cypriot side would not prevent a resolution.

''I am not speaking of the Turkish Cypriots here, only the Greek Cypriots and I call on Mr. Papadopoulos now to do the necessary. He must live up to that pledge,'' he added.

He said the government of Cyprus had ascertained throughout the process of negotiations that it was in agreement with the general lines of the Annan plan, it only sought minor rectifications within the parameters of the plan.

''What Mr. Papadopoulos said after the negotiations in Switzerland is a rejection of that notion. And I must draw the conclusion from his words that the government of the Republic of Cyprus opposes the international settlement, proposes the rejection of the international settlement and I will be very undiplomatic now in saying that I personally feel that I have been cheated by the Government of the Republic of Cyprus,'' Verheugen said.

http://www.hri.org/news/greek/ana/2004/ ... 2.ana.html

[bg_turk]

the Annan plan was even farted.

If you expect anything significantly different the Annan Plan, you are disillusional. Do not spit on it too much because you may have to lick your own spit eventually.

[BirKibrisli]

I have not seen Makarios' doco as yet,but from your comments I gather he either disputes or supporsts the theory that America was paying people in the RoC to support the AP.(please feel free to correct me).

I would argue that it was not in the USA's interest to have the AP accepted in Cyprus,because that would remove the need for the USA to play a role in the region,especially influence the warmly Islamic government of Turkey.The AP was especially designed to be rejected by the GCs and accepted by the TCs,hence removing the obstacles for Turkey to begin accession talks with the EU.There can be no other explanation as to why a lot of TCs voted for the AP knowing that they would be made refugees again in Cyprus.They must've been given iron clad guarantees that the GCs would reject the plan.The present government in Turkey would not survive if they had failed to begin accession talks with the EU.Hence the present smokescreen to keep the turkish voters and military happy.

The long term plan of the Anglo-Americans is to have Turkey NOT accepted by the EU but dependent on them for economic well being.Plus have a role in fighting the so called War Against Terror(for Turkey that is).
A strong and independent European Turkey is not in either British or American interests.And unfortunately the present government in Turkey wants to join the EU like someone wanting the birdflu.A partitioned Cyprus and a Turkey OUT of the EU is the script written by Turkey,UK and the USA.
It is going to plan as far as I can see.

[cypezokyli]

hey birkrisli. makarios doc does not reject the idea that the americans paid. besides we are so sure that they did that it doesnt matter what he sais. he just refers to a specific situation that happened in the south and how specific persons were accused of getting money, where some no-supporters in the list were convenietly forgotten. moreover it shows how easily public opinion IS formed. and even worse the political leadership participated in that filth, and even worse the first citizen of the republic.
(one funny thing about his reporter was that when he published a book concerning the killings of gc leftwinkers from EOKA, his book was given out by haravgi (the newspaper of AKEL). now that their opinions differ the official AKEL believes that he declared war on them..)

on your scenario about forcing our side to reject it is one of the possible ones. in a way these famous thousand bricks or calling christofias, were either made from their arrogance as a superpower or they simply know our cypriot character - when the americans say yes it is enough reason for us to say no. i was really thinking about that at that time. doesnt this american embassy read any gcypriot newspapers? dont they know that we dont trust them? i guess if they really wanted the plan to be accepted they should pretend that they are against it. in a way if they could predict our reaction then they are really dangerous, if they couldnt they are just arrogant and stupid.

[cypezokyli]

one more question about the mass media.
all the tv channerls were against the plan.
all the radio station - sometimes outside the AKEL radio but xatjigeorgiou as a good party member didnt really abond the partys line
2 newspapers were in favor, if u want to add cyprus mail then three. politis and cyprus mail we are already sure that they are financed from someone éven though we cannot prove it.
could u name one massmedia who supported the AP that was not finances by the americans?

[BirKibrisli]

Yiasou cypezokyli,

I think in a place like Cyprus the USA would be more subtle than actually paying money.They do that in the poor South American countries where some people are on the poverty line.I am too distant to the GC media to comment on particular cases.But the fact that the AP was a poorly disguised partition plan with some sweeteners,it was sure to be rejected by the GCs.It is indeed very easy to form public opinion,if you know a bit about mass psychology and mass communication.That is how countries like Australia or America can have right wing governments which only serve the interests of about 20% of the population.Capital controls media outlets via the power of the advertising dollar.Editors and owners of media outlets do not need to be told what line to take.They use their own imagination to please those who are paying their salaries.That is why it is vitally important to have public broadcasters that is at arms length from the governments and advertisers.Once you depend on the evil dollar,you are anybody's for the right price.And everybody has a price that is right.

[Piratis]

could u give examples of that mud?

Just about everything that they write about Papadopoulos and his past is mud. They didn't prove any of their accusations in the the court did they?

I would argue that it was not in the USA's interest to have the AP accepted in Cyprus

Lets analyze this:

Would the plan reach this far without the support of the AngloAmericans? I believe the answer is obvious. The Americans wanted this plan to be placed in referenda.
Why did they want that at that particular point? The answer is again obvious: Cyprus was about to enter the EU and that would create problems to the accesion process of Turkey.

So what is the referenda outcome that would help Turkey in her accesion process without creating any problems to Turkey or AngloAmericans?
The outcome that would certainly not help are:
1) "no" from both sides
2) a "yes" from GC side and a "no" from the TC side.

So what outcome did they want? The possibilities are 2:
1) a "yes" from both sides. This would legalize the partition and tie the hands of Greek Cypriots. Cyprus would not be able to oppose the Turkish accesion.

2) a "yes" from the TC side and a "no" from the GC side. With this outcome the GC side could be blamed and GCs wouldn't be able to find much support in blocking Turkey or demanding concesions from her (or so they hoped).

However to acheive either of the 2 possible objectives what was needed are people from within Cyprus that would help the Americans create the impression that the Annan plan was indeed a good balanced plan and the ones that rejected it were "hardlines" that didn't want a solution.

I remember very well DISY and co. promissing to us that we would deserve all the bad things that would happen to us if we choose to democratically reject that plan.

I am not saying that these people acted in the way they did because they were paid to. For example the Americans would not approach somebody like me to support their aim. But lets say they were aproaching somebody like cypezokyli and told him something in the lines of:
"We are an international organization for peace. This country is ruled by hardliners and they are going to destroy it by missing out the best chance to solve the problem. We know that you are one of the true patriots that want to save this place but unfortunately the dictators in here do now allow you to promote your beliefs. Please accept this support from us. Just like you we want the best for Cyprus .. blah blah blah" How many do you think would deny this offer?

What I am saying is that the Americans helped the campaign of many of those that supported the Annan plan and hated Papadopoulos. Of course when you receive money from somebody you are obligated to him. So there is no doubt that some of this people "spiced up" their campaign in a way that they would satisfy even more their sponsors.

[RAFAELLA]

the Annan plan was even farted.

If you expect anything significantly different the Annan Plan, you are disillusional. Do not spit on it too much because you may have to lick your own spit eventually.

"When we were trying to convince Turkey to allow the passage of our troops through its territory in Northern Iraq, we gave Turkey two motives: several billion dollars in the form of donations and loans and Cyprus in the form of the Annan plan."
Daniel Fried (member of the National Security Council and special advisor to President Bush), 26 June 2004