Cyprus-Forum.com

[B25]

see above!

What you blabbering on about, you are stuck in the 60's. As if the GCs want to go and kill all the TCs FFS. Crossings today number tens of thousands with no issues, even you come over to sort your GC bird out, so what's the problem re?

You have taken what I said completely out of context and gave us your life story, yippee!! As if we were interested, really.

If you want to play with numbers just add up the killed / missing TCs and see how much lower that figure is to the GCs of the same. So never mind your cry baby stories. Fast forward to the 21st century and find a way forward.

[MR-from-NG]

Greece and Turkey are the root of all evil in Cyprus.

We all hate them so much as Cypriots!

The only Guarantor Power that CAN be trusted, is the UK I'm afraid! At least they aren't full of nonsense!

If they both left, You would see changes, almost immediately... Most likely positive changes, there would be progress on the island and I'm sure a solution would pop up as well.... As long as they are involved, the closest we will get is making proposals as the "UN delegates" have done over the past century or so....

Why do you keep bringing Greece into this???? You are just trying to justify Turkeys existence. Greece has been out of the picture since '74, can't say the same about Turkey can we???

As for the UK, yeah pull the other one, they are responsible for you MFs here in the first place.

Cyprus does not need ANY guarantors powers, we just need people to respect international laws.

...says he, who broke all international laws and attacked the defenseless Turkish Cypriots killing and injuring thousands and more than a thousand "missing civilians" (taken as POW!) on record since then! That was when Cyprus was left alone with her own laws and means. SO! Where was your "International laws" then?

Lets admit it the likes of you who want Cyprus to be left completely on its own i.e. at the mercy of a majority GC population, is so that you can bring in the mainland Greek settlers and using force replace the TCs by them instead! NO THANKS! But you are so blind by your desires and hatred that you live a fantasy rather than what may actually happen in practice. Allow me to introduce you to reality;

1. You could not finish off the TCs back in 1963 when TCs had no army and had to defend themselves using handful of men in remote enclaves. You had the full control of the National Guard backed up by armed EOKA (B?) members as well as the support of the mainland Greek Forces running around trying to kill anything TC in their path and you still could not do it! It took many months before the UN intervened and even then the Eoka was very clever in attacking selective villages and areas away from the UN sights - who in fact acted more as tourists than peace-keepers.

2. The other half of the reason was; great majority of the GC population during 1963-4 era were the more civilized and honorable people, who did not want to murder civilian men women and children just because they were TCs. Most of the Greek villages as well as some mixed ones had learned to exist peacefully with the TCs, trading with each other and getting on with their everyday life. Mixed marriages started to become more and more likely over the 3 years of republic. The least of their concern was union with Greece! In fact During 1960s - before and after 1963 - Cyprus had a much higher standard of life than Greece and Turkey put together.

As a TC my father was the Chief Commander of police for Kyrenia region (Greek & Turkish mixed) during 1963, just before the troubles started - his driver was a Greek policeman, the same GC policemen helped him escape from prison after he was taken prisoner by the EOKA members raiding the police station during a meeting - It was the happiest day of my life as a 7 year old when I recognized my half bearded father come out of the police jeep after not hearing from him for almost a month! And the GC police driver whom I recognized just smiled and padded me on the head! Both GC and TC policemen in the force respected and loved my father - because he was a true Cypriot who never discriminated, and always worked for the good of all Cypriot people. Him being the commander in that area at the time assured there was not a single shot fired between GCs and TCs! In fact, it must be on record that Girne region was the only part where TCs and GCs caried on living as though nothing had happened when people were shooting at each other all over the island.

Going back to the 2 points raised above,
1. Now that the TCs have their own army of 4000 or so men and annually updated auxillaries numbering well over 10,000 equipped with latest guns plus probably another 30,000 able bodied men who completed their military service and who would be called upon if attacked- Add to that, they are not in separate isolated pockets now but have a frontier to defend against potential enemy;

2. Now that even more number of GCs are not interested in any more wars with TCs but rather settle for the Cypriot identity and see the land free of any outside interference or domination

What chance in hell do you have of bringing your fantasies to life? Talk is cheap reh! Blabber away what you like here, but it will not get further than the threads in this forum!

He must have an RoC passport then.

Yes I do have a Cypriot passport and an ID - as a born Cypriot whose ancestry goes back to more than 4 centuries in Cyprus please allow me the satisfaction of having my own country's passport

Great post Oz. Your father was a good man. My father always spoke highly of your dad and they were good friends. He was very lucky to be alive having been captured by Eoka terrorists. Take care mate and say hello to S.

[bigOz]

see above!

What you blabbering on about, you are stuck in the 60's. As if the GCs want to go and kill all the TCs FFS. Crossings today number tens of thousands with no issues, even you come over to sort your GC bird out, so what's the problem re?

You have taken what I said completely out of context and gave us your life story, yippee!! As if we were interested, really.

If you want to play with numbers just add up the killed / missing TCs and see how much lower that figure is to the GCs of the same. So never mind your cry baby stories. Fast forward to the 21st century and find a way forward.

This has nothing to do with my "life story" which is not a month when I was 7 years old! There was a point to that story, but I should not expect you to see that I do not care whether you or anyone else is interested - I was trying to prove a point...

Crossing over was not a problem between 1969 and 1974 either and look what happened! My problem is, as long as you have (albeit in minority) people still carrying the flag for Greek (or Hellenic) Nationalism and they are blatantly promoting their feelings either in public or social media, then as a TC I have every right to fear a repetition of past atrocities by a handful of senseless fanatics! Until you get rid of the vermin in your society, forget about having us live together as a Cypriot nation.

Yes we do cross over (both ways) in thousands, and yes! Send me a message before next time you are over and I buy you a drink in the Harbour, like I do many GC friends. But for now, let us stay each in their own controlled areas - in fact we shall do that even (if) after a Federal state is formed - until GCs teach their children to respect and trust the Cypriot ID whether GC or TC and not allow them to be Greek Nationalist freaks!

I do not care what happened during and after the 1974 war because I call it "collateral damage" as the Yankees would put it. The important thing is to learn a lesson from the question "By whom and Why the whole thing was started", then you may see its relation to the events of 1963 - a period which Makarios himself admitted to cater for events, caused by demands for ENOSIS.

So Makarios learned his lesson and a decade later he changed his tune to that of "Cyprus for Cypriot people" - this, as we all know almost cost him his life during 1974. Now put yourself in a TC's position and answer me this; Had it not been for the Turkish invasion what would have happened to TCs in the hands of EOKA(B) and mainland Greek army? In fact, what would have happened to most of the GCs who actually did not want ENOSIS and would have preferred to live together with TCs as Cypriots?

There can be no accusation as "living back in..." - people learn from history and that way they might stop its repetition. As a final note, many mainland Greeks visit Turkey and even more so Turks visited Greece over the past year, having drinks, food and fun - no problems there. But does that stop the dog fights over the Aegean? I think only this week Greece was reported as stationing surface to air missiles on one of the islands close to mainland Turkey - God help them if they shoot down a Turkish fighter!

DO NOT CUT OFF HISTORY AND BLAME EVERYTHING ON TURKS! That to me means you learned nothing and I should expect a repetition of the terrible events that happened before...

[T-Mac]

Greece and Turkey are the root of all evil in Cyprus.

We all hate them so much as Cypriots!

The only Guarantor Power that CAN be trusted, is the UK I'm afraid! At least they aren't full of nonsense!

If they both left, You would see changes, almost immediately... Most likely positive changes, there would be progress on the island and I'm sure a solution would pop up as well.... As long as they are involved, the closest we will get is making proposals as the "UN delegates" have done over the past century or so....

Why do you keep bringing Greece into this???? You are just trying to justify Turkeys existance. Greece has been out of the picture since '74, can't say the same about Turkey can we???

As for the UK, yeah pull the other one, they are responsible for you MFs here in the first place.

Cyprus does not need ANY guarantors powers, we just need people to respect international laws.[/quote]

I keep bringing Greece into this because It is as involved as before. Its direct involvement is not as PRONOUNCED as that of the North with Turkey because of the recognition of the RoC as an independent state. Because the north has nowhere to go in any direction, they are constantly looking Turkey-wards. And so Turkey has taken advantage of this and their involvement in the North is well defined if not Over-defined, by the money they send, the projects they start, people they send....... etc. The RoC is a recognized state and can look in almost any direction for trade or aid from other states and institutions therefore our bond with Greece is not as VISIBLE.

[Lordo]

t-mac you are all control freaks. the sooner you recieve medical help for your condition the better for all.

you can say what ever you like about gcs but when it comes to tcs you cant say jackshit. they are perfectly capable of making their on decisions. if you dont want any guarantors fine, dont have any. But if you are saying tcs do not need any guaratees or guarantors then i say thanks for being so considerate to the tcs but keep it . what you are saying really is, if at some point i decide to kick the shit out of you nobody can come and help you. i think you know what to do with your international law without me telling you.


the sooner you backward stoneage swine wake up the sooner this problem will be solved.

[T-Mac]

t-mac you are all control freaks. the sooner you recieve medical help for your condition the better for all.

you can say what ever you like about gcs but when it comes to tcs you cant say jackshit. they are perfectly capable of making their on decisions. if you dont want any guarantors fine, dont have any. But if you are saying tcs do not need any guaratees or guarantors then i say thanks for being so considerate to the tcs but keep it . what you are saying really is, if at some point i decide to kick the shit out of you nobody can come and help you. i think you know what to do with your international law without me telling you.


the sooner you backward stoneage swine wake up the sooner this problem will be solved.

Interesting response.
Gc and Tc's need to function on their own. That's what I'm saying. I don't Know how you are taking it....
If TC's and GC's can sit at a table... alone... with non of these Greeks, Turks, Russian, Americans or Israelis or whatever, you may have a feel of what I'm talking about. And we can always discuss in Nicosia. No need to go to Washington, Geneva or Johannesburg !

[Paphitis]

At last, we have real debate between real Cypriots.

Welcome to the forum T-Mac! Good posting from BogOz and MR-from-NG!

[Oceanside50]

t-mac you are all control freaks. the sooner you recieve medical help for your condition the better for all.

you can say what ever you like about gcs but when it comes to tcs you cant say jackshit. they are perfectly capable of making their on decisions. if you dont want any guarantors fine, dont have any. But if you are saying tcs do not need any guaratees or guarantors then i say thanks for being so considerate to the tcs but keep it . what you are saying really is, if at some point i decide to kick the shit out of you nobody can come and help you. i think you know what to do with your international law without me telling you.


the sooner you backward stoneage swine wake up the sooner this problem will be solved.

Interesting response.
Gc and Tc's need to function on their own. That's what I'm saying. I don't Know how you are taking it....
If TC's and GC's can sit at a table... alone... with non of these Greeks, Turks, Russian, Americans or Israelis or whatever, you may have a feel of what I'm talking about. And we can always discuss in Nicosia. No need to go to Washington, Geneva or Johannesburg !

Having the big powers(USA,Eu ) out of Cyprus' affairs won't happen..neither in the short term or long term..and obviously the big powers can't be ignored in shaping Cyprus history in the past term.

[Paphitis]

It is quite obvious to me that Cyprus is all alone and in order to make good positive headway Cyprus will need to detach itself from all so called "motherlands". The GCs and TCs have a big responsibility and should do this for the overall good and well being of all future generations.

It has to be a combined effort without Greece and Turkey.

However, BigOz and MR-from-NG have touched upon a very critical matter. There has been bloodshed in the past, so the matter of security can't be ignored. Both communities have a security issue and the TCs have to respect this as well.

Having "Guarantees" from other countries like Greece and Turkey can not be tolerated. That is no security for the GC community.

Security and "Guarantees" must be derived from another impartial source. Therefore, NATO membership is something that needs to be incorporated into the settlement. Perhaps a multinational NATO Force to be temporarily stationed in Cyprus for a period of time as well, which will be responsible for maintaining the natural order of the Constitution as well as provide the RoC with protection and security.

We must understand that a complete generational change must take place, whereby Cypriots are not distinguished as GC or TC but only as Cypriots of different religious belief. The critical thing here is the education system.

[Lordo]

this is the real problem of cyprus. gcs do not want guarantees and they can remove them any time they wish. the problem is the insistence that tcs can't have it either. you decide for yourselves and we will do the same.
get over it the sooner you do the sooner we shall have peace.