Cyprus-Forum.com

[kimon07]

Let me tell you this Kimon. Paphitis is next to all those you mention and is even closely related to one of them you do not mention.

You force me to post off topic again but I can not resist.

I am glad you mentioned him:

Pallikaridis1.png

Addressing the court which sentenced him to his death he does not accept to be defended by lawyers, he pleads guilty as charged and declares with defiance:
I know you will hang me. Whatever I did I did it as a Greek Cypriot who seeks his freedom.
That is all.
(Γνωρίζω ότι θα με κρεμάσετε. Ό, τι έκαμα το έκαμα ως Έλλην Κύπριος όστις ζητεί την Ελευθερίαν του. Τίποτα άλλο).

In the last letter he wrote before his execution he writes:

I will follow my destiny with courage…………… We all die one day.

It is a good thing to die for Greece.

(Ο Ευαγόρας στο τελευταίο γράμμα του γράφει:
Θ΄ ακολουθήσω με θάρρος τη μοίρα μου. Ίσως αυτό να ναι το τελευταίο μου γράμμα.
Μα πάλι δεν πειράζει. Δεν λυπάμαι για τίποτα. Ας χάσω το κάθε τι.
Μια φορά κανείς πεθαίνει. Θα βαδίσω χαρούμενος στην τελευταία μου κατοικία. Τι σήμερα τι αύριο;
Όλοι πεθαίνουν μια μέρα.
Είναι καλό πράγμα να πεθαίνει κανείς για την Ελλάδα…….
Ώρα 7:30. Η πιο όμορφη μέρα της ζωής μου. Η πιο όμορφη ώρα. Μη ρωτάτε γιατί).
http://www.onalert.gr/stories/h-poihsh- ... allhkaridh

You do not understand the values I talk about. To you they are just slogans but I have lived them in war zones and operationally through years of service.

Certainly, the values I talk about do not exist in Greece, with the only exception being (I say this because I know as I have seen for myself), The Hellenic Armed Forces.

Apparently, your preoccupation with the ANZAC "Bushido" did not allow you to understand one thing about the Hellenic Armed Forces. That they take pride in the fact that they consider themselves as and they are considered by the Greeks to be the guardians of the historical values of the Hellenic Nation which, according to you, do not exist. And something else. The officers of the Hellenic Armed Forces are not some sort of a distinct aristocratic elite (which was the case with most other armies till the end of WW2, a remnant of the Feudal era). They are the children of common Greeks, the blood and flesh of the Hellenic Nation.
Finally, you must make up your mind whether the Greek military are the cowards you described in all the other posts of yours or the "honorable" force which follows the ....ANZAC code.
By the way! How old are you Captain Sparrow? 200?

[Paphitis]

Let me tell you this Kimon. Paphitis is next to all those you mention and is even closely related to one of them you do not mention.

You force me to post off topic again but I can not resist.

I am glad you mentioned him:

Pallikaridis1.png

Addressing the court which sentenced him to his death he does not accept to be defended by lawyers, he pleads guilty as charged and declares with defiance:
I know you will hang me. Whatever I did I did it as a Greek Cypriot who seeks his freedom.
That is all.
(Γνωρίζω ότι θα με κρεμάσετε. Ό, τι έκαμα το έκαμα ως Έλλην Κύπριος όστις ζητεί την Ελευθερίαν του. Τίποτα άλλο).

In the last letter he wrote before his execution he writes:

I will follow my destiny with courage…………… We all die one day.

It is a good thing to die for Greece.

(Ο Ευαγόρας στο τελευταίο γράμμα του γράφει:
Θ΄ ακολουθήσω με θάρρος τη μοίρα μου. Ίσως αυτό να ναι το τελευταίο μου γράμμα.
Μα πάλι δεν πειράζει. Δεν λυπάμαι για τίποτα. Ας χάσω το κάθε τι.
Μια φορά κανείς πεθαίνει. Θα βαδίσω χαρούμενος στην τελευταία μου κατοικία. Τι σήμερα τι αύριο;
Όλοι πεθαίνουν μια μέρα.
Είναι καλό πράγμα να πεθαίνει κανείς για την Ελλάδα…….
Ώρα 7:30. Η πιο όμορφη μέρα της ζωής μου. Η πιο όμορφη ώρα. Μη ρωτάτε γιατί).
http://www.onalert.gr/stories/h-poihsh- ... allhkaridh

You do not understand the values I talk about. To you they are just slogans but I have lived them in war zones and operationally through years of service.

Certainly, the values I talk about do not exist in Greece, with the only exception being (I say this because I know as I have seen for myself), The Hellenic Armed Forces.

Apparently, your preoccupation with the ANZAC "Bushido" did not allow you to understand one thing about the Hellenic Armed Forces. That they take pride in the fact that they consider themselves as and they are considered by the Greeks to be the guardians of the historical values of the Hellenic Nation which, according to you, do not exist. And something else. The officers of the Hellenic Armed Forces are not some sort of a distinct aristocratic elite (which was the case with most other armies till the end of WW2, a remnant of the Feudal era). They are the children of common Greeks, the blood and flesh of the Hellenic Nation.
Finally, you must make up your mind whether the Greek military are the cowards you described in all the other posts of yours or the "honorable" force which follows the ....ANZAC code.
By the way! How old are you Captain Sparrow? 200?

Only you would call it "Bushido" but that is more a reflection of your poor character.

I am the closest living kin of one of them and I will not allow you to soil their honour. That man or kid should I say, along with many like him are from the old school which I happily like to think I hail from as well, and which sadly is not common today.

As for the Hellenic Armed Forces, I know for a fact that their Military Establishment looks for day where they will stand for the Nation and uphold the values I told you about and which they do indeed possess but sadly the political establishment which does not have these values will not allow this to happen and which also means that Cyprus has been continuously let down, including those who died fighting for Cyprus as part of EOKA. Cyprus has been let down for 39 years now, and the worse thing of all is they have made the Turkish Occupation acceptable to the international community as there is no incentive to act in order to end it.

You can keep the rhetoric about the "blood and flesh" to yourself because that is a load of baloney.

[supporttheunderdog]

Race is categorized so differently in the present day and age in different countries.

In ancient times, one had Airs, Waters and Places, a short and laughable book by Hippocrates, which sought to find a scientific reason for physical differences between races: a fore-runner of things to come.

No, no, no, no .... no.

You don't have to go back 2,500 years for a "laughable" description of foreign people!

"It was not only Africans who were deemed to be inferior. For example, a school text published as late as 1925 claimed that the natives of India were a 'half-civilised, thieving…primitive race', who were given a measure of 'civilisation' by the 'tall well-built race of Aryans… akin to the best European types' (CB Thurston, An Economic Geography of the British Empire, London 1925, p.153). Such racist descriptions of Africans and Indians appeared in text books until about 40 years ago."

http://revealinghistories.org.uk/legaci ... today.html

~

it was however a forerunner of the scientific racism that developed in the 18th C, with the writings of e.g. Voltaire (here, kitty kitty) or Kant, or Hegel, to name but a few.

You don't have to stop at German philosophers either.

"It was a British man, not a German, who first came up with the term eugenics in 1883. Francis Galton was a cousin of Charles Darwin and he became obsessed with Origin of Species, especially its chapter on the breeding of domestic animals. This inspired him to spend much of his life studying the variations in human ability. He wrote: "The question was then forced upon me. Could not the race of men be similarly improved? Could not the undesirables be got rid of and the desirables multiplied?"."

http://www.newstatesman.com/society/201 ... s-disabled

http://sss.sagepub.com/content/6/3-4/499.extract#

~

...nor was it confined to the British Empire.

Yes it became rife and spread like wildfire during the British Empire:

"Quote from Churchill: “I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.” (To the Peel Commission 1937)

http://www.nazi.org.uk/winston-churchil ... genics.htm

~

Significantly most of the earlier scientific racists were American or Continental European, and in its modern form it was not a British invention,

Significantly, the applied science of racism, in its "modern form" was indeed a British invention:

"In 1883 a British biologist named Francis Galton combined the roots of the Greek words for "good" and "origin" to create the term "eugenics" for an applied science based on genetics and breeding. The "science" of eugenics proposed that human perfection could be developed through selective breeding. In the late nineteenth century researchers developed the idea, a blend of genetic research and social theory. Eugenics soon crossed the Atlantic and by the 1920s and 1930s was adopted by mainstream scientists, doctors and the general public."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/pill/peopl ... enics.html

~

And yes, some of the master-racists of the British elite only died a few decades ago:

http://www.galtoninstitute.org.uk/Newsl ... genics.htm

I have not forgotten you "g"IG but I am doing some interesting reading of ancient sources eg Aristotle and Plato which suggests the main thrust of this thread, the alleged recent origin of racism, etc, is wide of the mark as it seems much of what you mention , including Eugenics, can be traced back to Ancient Greece and entered modern European thought through Classical education.

I am not contesting that there was no racism in the British Empire, indeed there was, but the origins possibly go back some 2300 years. Maybe they should be featured in the Hellenic inventions thread.

Yes, carry on Googling now your lies and hypocrisies have been exposed. But never forget the golden rule of research; the Greeks wrote about many things, (Kalamarades as they are!) but only the evil-doers take ideas and musings to such extremes and practice - in modern times - discarded, unethical ideas of the distant past.

eugenics (n.)
1883, coined (along with adjective eugenic) by English scientist Francis Galton (1822-1911) on analogy of ethics, physics, etc. from Greek eugenes "well-born, of good stock, of noble race," from eu- "good" (see eu-) + genos "birth" (see genus).
The investigation of human eugenics, that is, of the conditions under which men of a high type are produced. [Galton, "Human Faculty," 1883]

The word might be Greek, but the Englishman Galton (instead of resorting to Germanic) devoted his life and research to the spread of such MODERN ideas.

You seem to justify invading and enslaving and enforcing sterilizations, in modern times, simply because some 3000 years ago philosophers debated the moral and ethical issues of certain worldwide (and then moderate) practices of barbarians.

You can google all you like, but it will not change how unable you are to reason ...

Madam!

It is quite clear that you have completely failed to understand the nature of this issue. This the point of the debate:

But the initial question here is this: Is racism an ancient phenomenon/practice? Or is it the curse of modern human history?
I maintain the latter and I intend to produce all the necessary evidence.

Please therefore deal with my later full and substantive response with direct quotes (albeit translated) from the Greek Philosophers, in particular the direct quote from Plato's republic on his proposal for Eugenic practices to be performed by Greeks on Greeks, and the quote from Aristotle's "Politcs", which shows Imperialism was alive and well and living in Ancient Greece, and the quotes attributed to Aristotle and by Hippoctres which plainly show Racism was an ancient phenomenon, as they made crude generalisations by reference to ethnic/genetic/geographical origin and/or skin colour.

Otherwise the general poverty of substance if not abusive nature of your response both here and in other places rather shows the YOU need to learn how to reason and debate, since all so often all you can manage to do in response is to resort to cheap name calling such a fascist, (a racist remark when you linked it to my alleged ethnic background as being a Germanic characteristics) colonialist or imperialist . You are Hypocrite in the way you seek to deny the existence of racism in Greece while Criticising it in others, and you tell us how great the example was of Greek Philosophy and how infleuntial it was on Europen thought, thats is until some of the less pleasant aspects are exposed.

As for googling how much of it did Kimon07 do in researching his original post, and how much did you do in putting together your above response?

[GreekIslandGirl]

Madam!

It is quite clear that you have completely failed to understand the nature of this issue.

On the contrary, I gave you a full response which completely nullified your assertions on modern eugenics and racism and their roots. The fact that you fail to distinguish between ancient writings of human differences (something of more novelty 3,000 years ago) and the practices of Galton (whose Institute I had the misfortune of working at for a few months) and the eugenics elite still peddling their theories just a few decades ago in Britain says plenty about your unhealthy psyche.

The Galton Institute is a learned society based in the United Kingdom. Its aims are "to promote the public understanding of human heredity and to facilitate informed debate about the ethical issues raised by advances in reproductive technology".[1]

It was founded in 1907 as the Eugenics Education Society, with the aim of promoting the research and understanding of eugenics. It became the Eugenics Society in 1926 (often referred to as the British Eugenics Society to distinguish it from others). From 1909-1968 it published The Eugenics Review.wiki

I have no problem with others describing me as olive-skinned or of short stature or lacking in civilised manners (the type of physical differences written about thousands of years ago), but I do have a problem with the type of racism and eugenic beliefs DEVELOPED most scientifically in Britain. Pleased to say, apart from a few individuals, Britain today is making great improvements over these recent practices and moving onto a better level.

Now, I don't expect you to accept this, but I don't care since what you peddle is opinion based on misapprehensions whereas I gave you the facts and the dates of these RECENT occurrences.

[kimon07]

Let me tell you this Kimon. Paphitis is next to all those you mention and is even closely related to one of them you do not mention.

You force me to post off topic again but I can not resist.

I am glad you mentioned him:

Pallikaridis1.png

Addressing the court which sentenced him to his death he does not accept to be defended by lawyers, he pleads guilty as charged and declares with defiance:
I know you will hang me. Whatever I did I did it as a Greek Cypriot who seeks his freedom.
That is all.
(Γνωρίζω ότι θα με κρεμάσετε. Ό, τι έκαμα το έκαμα ως Έλλην Κύπριος όστις ζητεί την Ελευθερίαν του. Τίποτα άλλο).

In the last letter he wrote before his execution he writes:

I will follow my destiny with courage…………… We all die one day.

It is a good thing to die for Greece.

(Ο Ευαγόρας στο τελευταίο γράμμα του γράφει:
Θ΄ ακολουθήσω με θάρρος τη μοίρα μου. Ίσως αυτό να ναι το τελευταίο μου γράμμα.
Μα πάλι δεν πειράζει. Δεν λυπάμαι για τίποτα. Ας χάσω το κάθε τι.
Μια φορά κανείς πεθαίνει. Θα βαδίσω χαρούμενος στην τελευταία μου κατοικία. Τι σήμερα τι αύριο;
Όλοι πεθαίνουν μια μέρα.
Είναι καλό πράγμα να πεθαίνει κανείς για την Ελλάδα…….
Ώρα 7:30. Η πιο όμορφη μέρα της ζωής μου. Η πιο όμορφη ώρα. Μη ρωτάτε γιατί).
http://www.onalert.gr/stories/h-poihsh- ... allhkaridh

You do not understand the values I talk about. To you they are just slogans but I have lived them in war zones and operationally through years of service.

Certainly, the values I talk about do not exist in Greece, with the only exception being (I say this because I know as I have seen for myself), The Hellenic Armed Forces.

Apparently, your preoccupation with the ANZAC "Bushido" did not allow you to understand one thing about the Hellenic Armed Forces. That they take pride in the fact that they consider themselves as and they are considered by the Greeks to be the guardians of the historical values of the Hellenic Nation which, according to you, do not exist. And something else. The officers of the Hellenic Armed Forces are not some sort of a distinct aristocratic elite (which was the case with most other armies till the end of WW2, a remnant of the Feudal era). They are the children of common Greeks, the blood and flesh of the Hellenic Nation.
Finally, you must make up your mind whether the Greek military are the cowards you described in all the other posts of yours or the "honorable" force which follows the ....ANZAC code.
By the way! How old are you Captain Sparrow? 200?

Only you would call it "Bushido" but that is more a reflection of your poor character.

I am the closest living kin of one of them and I will not allow you to soil their honour. That man or kid should I say, along with many like him are from the old school which I happily like to think I hail from as well, and which sadly is not common today.

So, was Pallikaridis prostituting himself declaring that what he did he did as a GREEK Cypriot and that he would be happy to die for Greece?

Oh and something else.

I too have been to all the major battle zones of WW2 but I don't brag about it ("Call of Duty No2" "Brothers in Arms" etc. Especially the Russian Front was real hell and I wonder how I survived). Not to mention the battles I faught during my previous lives (Age of Empires and such). Fantastic PC games all of them. Never played any "Star Wars" though. I am sure I would have met you somewhere in space if I had.

[Paphitis]

Let me tell you this Kimon. Paphitis is next to all those you mention and is even closely related to one of them you do not mention.

You force me to post off topic again but I can not resist.

I am glad you mentioned him:

Pallikaridis1.png

Addressing the court which sentenced him to his death he does not accept to be defended by lawyers, he pleads guilty as charged and declares with defiance:
I know you will hang me. Whatever I did I did it as a Greek Cypriot who seeks his freedom.
That is all.
(Γνωρίζω ότι θα με κρεμάσετε. Ό, τι έκαμα το έκαμα ως Έλλην Κύπριος όστις ζητεί την Ελευθερίαν του. Τίποτα άλλο).

In the last letter he wrote before his execution he writes:

I will follow my destiny with courage…………… We all die one day.

It is a good thing to die for Greece.

(Ο Ευαγόρας στο τελευταίο γράμμα του γράφει:
Θ΄ ακολουθήσω με θάρρος τη μοίρα μου. Ίσως αυτό να ναι το τελευταίο μου γράμμα.
Μα πάλι δεν πειράζει. Δεν λυπάμαι για τίποτα. Ας χάσω το κάθε τι.
Μια φορά κανείς πεθαίνει. Θα βαδίσω χαρούμενος στην τελευταία μου κατοικία. Τι σήμερα τι αύριο;
Όλοι πεθαίνουν μια μέρα.
Είναι καλό πράγμα να πεθαίνει κανείς για την Ελλάδα…….
Ώρα 7:30. Η πιο όμορφη μέρα της ζωής μου. Η πιο όμορφη ώρα. Μη ρωτάτε γιατί).
http://www.onalert.gr/stories/h-poihsh- ... allhkaridh

You do not understand the values I talk about. To you they are just slogans but I have lived them in war zones and operationally through years of service.

Certainly, the values I talk about do not exist in Greece, with the only exception being (I say this because I know as I have seen for myself), The Hellenic Armed Forces.

Apparently, your preoccupation with the ANZAC "Bushido" did not allow you to understand one thing about the Hellenic Armed Forces. That they take pride in the fact that they consider themselves as and they are considered by the Greeks to be the guardians of the historical values of the Hellenic Nation which, according to you, do not exist. And something else. The officers of the Hellenic Armed Forces are not some sort of a distinct aristocratic elite (which was the case with most other armies till the end of WW2, a remnant of the Feudal era). They are the children of common Greeks, the blood and flesh of the Hellenic Nation.
Finally, you must make up your mind whether the Greek military are the cowards you described in all the other posts of yours or the "honorable" force which follows the ....ANZAC code.
By the way! How old are you Captain Sparrow? 200?

Only you would call it "Bushido" but that is more a reflection of your poor character.

I am the closest living kin of one of them and I will not allow you to soil their honour. That man or kid should I say, along with many like him are from the old school which I happily like to think I hail from as well, and which sadly is not common today.

So, was Pallikaridis prostituting himself declaring that what he did he did as a GREEK Cypriot and that he would be happy to die for Greece?

Oh and something else.

I too have been to all the major battle zones of WW2 but I don't brag about it ("Call of Duty No2" "Brothers in Arms" etc. Especially the Russian Front was real hell and I wonder how I survived). Not to mention the battles I faught during my previous lives (Age of Empires and such). Fantastic PC games all of them. Never played any "Star Wars" though. I am sure I would have met you somewhere in space if I had.

Different times and different era!

I guarantee you he would not prostitute himself then or now just like the Australians do not prostitute themselves like they use to fighting for the empire in Africa and elsewhere (Boer War). In those days it was about the "Mother country" and King, but it is not like that now because countries grow up and mature as well as develop their own ID, and international standing which is something you are unwilling to do.

At least its "mother" will still lay it on the line, unlike your degenerate mother that disrespects Palikaridi, Afxentiou and every Cypriot because it is unwilling to earn the respect you demand for her on this forum.

[GreekIslandGirl]

FUCK EOKA.. The so called EOKA heroes were a bunch of cowardly murderous scum who lacked any sort of honour ...

You might be buoyed up by your idiotic "ally" into freely making such comments, but an apology is still in order.

[supporttheunderdog]

FUCK EOKA.. The so called EOKA heroes were a bunch of cowardly murderous scum who lacked any sort of honour ...

You might be buoyed up by your idiotic "ally" into freely making such comments, but an apology is still in order.

FUCK OFF! The at is the closest to an apology you will get from me about EOKA.

[Paphitis]

FUCK EOKA.. The so called EOKA heroes were a bunch of cowardly murderous scum who lacked any sort of honour ...

You might be buoyed up by your idiotic "ally" into freely making such comments, but an apology is still in order.

I fully agree with this.

STUD, really sorry, but an apology is in order!

Your comments about EOKA are deplorable and disrespectful to Cyprus and its people.

[Paphitis]

FUCK EOKA.. The so called EOKA heroes were a bunch of cowardly murderous scum who lacked any sort of honour ...

You might be buoyed up by your idiotic "ally" into freely making such comments, but an apology is still in order.

The only idiotic person here is you for talking so much crap!

Both you and STUD should apologize!