Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

The Greek Dictatorship was non other than the Greek Military. They are responsible for the ultimate security of the Greek Nation and for all Greek Citizens!

This Military establishment was the Government of Greece. Greece and the US were complicit in the Coup and had made an agreement for Double Union.

The US did not install the Junta! The US was merely opportunistic!

What is correct are the official records and sources I posted and not your Kafeneio opinions which support your prejudices!

Reality check is in order!

[Oceanside50]

Remember the time when the Turkish Air Force was dropping Napalm Bombs and you were running for your life.

Well I would like to point out 2 things:

Turkey was actually planning an invasion. You know who stopped that one? The Good ole USA! Do you have a headache now? [/quote]

I'm well aware the 1964 attempted invasion by Turkey was halted by the USA. But that doesn't mean 1974 was the invasion in which the Brits were the heroes of the day for GCs, as you try to portray. The Brits may have staged a few face-saving neutrality-looking incidences, but to have acted even once to allow Turkey to do what it did is the litmus-test of their complicity - and there are plenty of incidences that are associated with Britain's actions and inaction which fueled and supported the invasion to become, not just an invasion, but a most barbaric slaughter of Greek civilians.

Now, find some other means to play and stop re-writing Cyprus' history just because you are going through your Britophile phase, please.[/quote]
The British, as the protagonist authors of the Zurich agreements, acted in a most despicable fashion in standing by and allowing the Turkish invasion. Their own parliament on a debate on Cyprus, concluded that Britain should not have remained inactive but instead should have used all means in her power to stop the invasion.




I will not mention the role played by Greece, totally inappropriate since Greece it self was a signatory to the notorious Zurich agreements. Cyprus was taken to the slaughter house by external powers that ought to thoroughly be ashamed of their cowardly act.[/quote

Absolutely, Miltiades.




As for "Greece's" role as guarantors, may I remind you that they were under a military dictatorship at the time and the fascist non-elected leaders were acting on behalf of the USA in deposing Makarios. Internally, we had too many Greek Cypriots who were pro-American, at the time working towards fulfilling America's strategic moves in the Mediterranean. Since the end of the cold-war, we are free-er to ally with both USA and Russia, as economies dictate, without such a scenario again. Commi-brother and Western-favouring sisters need never enter into a coup again in showing loyalties to the left or the right. Our union with Greece in the EU is also a positive step towards avoiding internal factions. All we need now is the EU army to build up and offer some real chance of removing the Turks from the equation and peace can come to our beautiful coastline (once the SBAs have cleaned up their mess and departed too. )[/quote]

Answer this question Why was the junta acting on behalf of the usa?

Internally, we had too many Greek Cypriots who were pro-American, at the time working towards fulfilling America's strategic moves in the Mediterranean.

What was the American agenda?

. Since the end of the cold-war, we are free-er to ally with both USA and Russia, as economies dictate, without such a scenario again.

Who/why do you think you're freer to anything more then before?..Who is to stop anyone of the other characters from coming in and taking Cyprus' oil? Kind of like when they took 37 percent of Cyprus in the past and not one inch given back in 40 years...
The Kaffenia must be buzzing in the hot Cypriot sun.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Internally, we had too many Greek Cypriots who were pro-American, at the time working towards fulfilling America's strategic moves in the Mediterranean.

What was the American agenda?

Same as it was since post WWII; to retain a foothold and listening posts to the middle East.

. Since the end of the cold-war, we are free-er to ally with both USA and Russia, as economies dictate, without such a scenario again.

Who/why do you think you're freer to anything more then before?..Who is to stop anyone of the other characters from coming in and taking Cyprus' oil? Kind of like when they took 37 percent of Cyprus in the past and not one inch given back in 40 years...
The Kaffenia must be buzzing in the hot Cypriot sun.

As I said, there's no longer a cold war and the USA and Russia are much more co-operative with each other. But as to whether they both decide, together, to help themselves to Cyprus' Gas, we are powerless to stop them - but individually, they still pretty much keep an eye on each other and "share". So far Cyprus has been allowed to license to Noble Energy, but Gazprom haven't quite committed yet. I can also see a scenario where Russia comes more and more into the Euro-fold.

[Oceanside50]

Internally, we had too many Greek Cypriots who were pro-American, at the time working towards fulfilling America's strategic moves in the Mediterranean.

What was the American agenda?

Same as it was since post WWII; to retain a foothold and listening posts to the middle East.

. Since the end of the cold-war, we are free-er to ally with both USA and Russia, as economies dictate, without such a scenario again.

Who/why do you think you're freer to anything more then before?..Who is to stop anyone of the other characters from coming in and taking Cyprus' oil? Kind of like when they took 37 percent of Cyprus in the past and not one inch given back in 40 years...
The Kaffenia must be buzzing in the hot Cypriot sun.

As I said, there's no longer a cold war and the USA and Russia are much more co-operative with each other. But as to whether they both decide, together, to help themselves to Cyprus' Gas, we are powerless to stop them - but individually, they still pretty much keep an eye on each other and "share". So far Cyprus has been allowed to license to Noble Energy, but Gazprom haven't quite committed yet. I can also see a scenario where Russia comes more and more into the Euro-fold.

Regardless of whether or not there is a cold war, Cyprus is part of the EU and is not free-er to do anything but uphold the interests of the EU. Russias' role in the Med. and in European affairs is very much limited because of its geographic location and its minimal influence in the Med. Concerning the USA's interests in Cyprus and in particular its listening posts, they were there before the ROC was established and are implicitly allowed to have them under the Zurich agreements. Now imagine if Cyprus was allowed to do what it wanted, knowing the upheaval with its Tc minority, wouldnt there be today a Soviet/Russian military port serving the Russian/Soviet naval fleet in Cyprus? Yes there would be, thats the problem Americans have with Cyprus.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Internally, we had too many Greek Cypriots who were pro-American, at the time working towards fulfilling America's strategic moves in the Mediterranean.

What was the American agenda?

Same as it was since post WWII; to retain a foothold and listening posts to the middle East.

. Since the end of the cold-war, we are free-er to ally with both USA and Russia, as economies dictate, without such a scenario again.

Who/why do you think you're freer to anything more then before?..Who is to stop anyone of the other characters from coming in and taking Cyprus' oil? Kind of like when they took 37 percent of Cyprus in the past and not one inch given back in 40 years...
The Kaffenia must be buzzing in the hot Cypriot sun.

As I said, there's no longer a cold war and the USA and Russia are much more co-operative with each other. But as to whether they both decide, together, to help themselves to Cyprus' Gas, we are powerless to stop them - but individually, they still pretty much keep an eye on each other and "share". So far Cyprus has been allowed to license to Noble Energy, but Gazprom haven't quite committed yet. I can also see a scenario where Russia comes more and more into the Euro-fold.

Regardless of whether or not there is a cold war, Cyprus is part of the EU and is not free-er to do anything but uphold the interests of the EU.

We have a veto here, and whether it's overtly obvious or not, we have a lot more power within, as EU members, than we had before - hence free-er. We have a voice. Right now, we are still whispering! In time ...

Russias' role in the Med. and in European affairs is very much limited because of its geographic location and its minimal influence in the Med.

There are no such geographical constraints these days. Russia might as well be right on top of us.

Concerning the USA's interests in Cyprus and in particular its listening posts, they were there before the ROC was established and are implicitly allowed to have them under the Zurich agreements.

Exactly! As I said, since WWII. Once the USA felt it helped Europe, we have been stuck with them.

Now imagine if Cyprus was allowed to do what it wanted, knowing the upheaval with its Tc minority, wouldnt there be today a Soviet/Russian military port serving the Russian/Soviet naval fleet in Cyprus? Yes there would be, thats the problem Americans have with Cyprus.

Don't really understand what you are saying here - but the Russians and USA pretty much look like they are dividing out the world between them. They both have a history in Cyprus, so they could compromise and share assets - it does look like it's going that way. But before they become comfortable, I would like to bolster up the EU which has the only legitimate claim on Cyprus and get them to spend some money on an ARMY!

[Oceanside50]

Internally, we had too many Greek Cypriots who were pro-American, at the time working towards fulfilling America's strategic moves in the Mediterranean.

What was the American agenda?

Same as it was since post WWII; to retain a foothold and listening posts to the middle East.

. Since the end of the cold-war, we are free-er to ally with both USA and Russia, as economies dictate, without such a scenario again.

Who/why do you think you're freer to anything more then before?..Who is to stop anyone of the other characters from coming in and taking Cyprus' oil? Kind of like when they took 37 percent of Cyprus in the past and not one inch given back in 40 years...
The Kaffenia must be buzzing in the hot Cypriot sun.

As I said, there's no longer a cold war and the USA and Russia are much more co-operative with each other. But as to whether they both decide, together, to help themselves to Cyprus' Gas, we are powerless to stop them - but individually, they still pretty much keep an eye on each other and "share". So far Cyprus has been allowed to license to Noble Energy, but Gazprom haven't quite committed yet. I can also see a scenario where Russia comes more and more into the Euro-fold.

Regardless of whether or not there is a cold war, Cyprus is part of the EU and is not free-er to do anything but uphold the interests of the EU.

We have a veto here, and whether it's overtly obvious or not, we have a lot more power within, as EU members, than we had before - hence free-er. We have a voice. Right now, we are still whispering! In time ...

Russias' role in the Med. and in European affairs is very much limited because of its geographic location and its minimal influence in the Med.

There are no such geographical constraints these days. Russia might as well be right on top of us.

Concerning the USA's interests in Cyprus and in particular its listening posts, they were there before the ROC was established and are implicitly allowed to have them under the Zurich agreements.

Exactly! As I said, since WWII. Once the USA felt it helped Europe, we have been stuck with them.

Now imagine if Cyprus was allowed to do what it wanted, knowing the upheaval with its Tc minority, wouldnt there be today a Soviet/Russian military port serving the Russian/Soviet naval fleet in Cyprus? Yes there would be, thats the problem Americans have with Cyprus.

Don't really understand what you are saying here - but the Russians and USA pretty much look like they are dividing out the world between them. They both have a
history in Cyprus, so they could compromise and share assets - it does look like it's going that way. But before they become comfortable, I would like to bolster up the EU which has the only legitimate claim on Cyprus and get them to spend some money on an ARMY!

Where do you see the Russians and Americans dividing up the world?...The Russians dont have any more military/political clout then France. Since the end of WWII theyve been trying to get a naval base in the Med. and middle east, they managed one (Syria) and soon they will lose that one.

They both have a
history in Cyprus, so they could compromise and share assets

My grandmothers toe clippings have more of a history on Cyprus then the Russians, I dont see your point. The Russians cannot get near any part of Cyprus because Cyprus belongs to the West, so there will not be sharing of any kind.


Heres the part you dont understand...The Americans and Nato have managed to secure influence over the whole middle east and the Med including the Persian Gulf, due to the fact that these areas are of vital interests in terms of resources and strategic location. The Soviets/Russians cannot get anywhere close to these areas because the Americans will not allow it. The "GreatSatan", USA, has also managed to secure control of Saudi Arabia, which has Mecca, the place where Muslim say is the most important place for them to pray. Getting back to Cyprus, knowing what you read above, do you still think the Americans would have taken the chance of allowing Cyprus to give the Soviets/Russians a military port? Or do you think in order to subdue the Cypriots,Turkey was sent in to take 37% of the island? Now what do you think would happen if the Cypriots said to the Russians come and build a naval base here on our lovely island, today?....

[Paphitis]

Internally, we had too many Greek Cypriots who were pro-American, at the time working towards fulfilling America's strategic moves in the Mediterranean.

What was the American agenda?

Same as it was since post WWII; to retain a foothold and listening posts to the middle East.

. Since the end of the cold-war, we are free-er to ally with both USA and Russia, as economies dictate, without such a scenario again.

Who/why do you think you're freer to anything more then before?..Who is to stop anyone of the other characters from coming in and taking Cyprus' oil? Kind of like when they took 37 percent of Cyprus in the past and not one inch given back in 40 years...
The Kaffenia must be buzzing in the hot Cypriot sun.

As I said, there's no longer a cold war and the USA and Russia are much more co-operative with each other. But as to whether they both decide, together, to help themselves to Cyprus' Gas, we are powerless to stop them - but individually, they still pretty much keep an eye on each other and "share". So far Cyprus has been allowed to license to Noble Energy, but Gazprom haven't quite committed yet. I can also see a scenario where Russia comes more and more into the Euro-fold.

Regardless of whether or not there is a cold war, Cyprus is part of the EU and is not free-er to do anything but uphold the interests of the EU.

We have a veto here, and whether it's overtly obvious or not, we have a lot more power within, as EU members, than we had before - hence free-er. We have a voice. Right now, we are still whispering! In time ...

Russias' role in the Med. and in European affairs is very much limited because of its geographic location and its minimal influence in the Med.

There are no such geographical constraints these days. Russia might as well be right on top of us.

Concerning the USA's interests in Cyprus and in particular its listening posts, they were there before the ROC was established and are implicitly allowed to have them under the Zurich agreements.

Exactly! As I said, since WWII. Once the USA felt it helped Europe, we have been stuck with them.

Now imagine if Cyprus was allowed to do what it wanted, knowing the upheaval with its Tc minority, wouldnt there be today a Soviet/Russian military port serving the Russian/Soviet naval fleet in Cyprus? Yes there would be, thats the problem Americans have with Cyprus.

Don't really understand what you are saying here - but the Russians and USA pretty much look like they are dividing out the world between them. They both have a history in Cyprus, so they could compromise and share assets - it does look like it's going that way. But before they become comfortable, I would like to bolster up the EU which has the only legitimate claim on Cyprus and get them to spend some money on an ARMY!

Do you blame US or NATO for that?

That would change the balance of power in the area. The fifth fleet is nearby and the Cold war was in full swing.

Let me ask you this, do you think Cyprus has the right to give the USSR a base in Cyprus? If so, does the US and NATO then have the right to destroy Cyprus?

I am really sorry, but you can't get any more daft Oracle.

The EU already has NATO. No need to change something that already works.

It is up to Cyprus to enter the fold one day. It is imperative!

the reason why I bring up these discussions is because I fear cypriots will repeat the same mistakes. At the moment, Anastasiades is trying to joing the PfP and he has huge opposition from AKEL. They say, NATO destroyed us, so why join an enemy.

I do not view things like that at all. NATO and US may have destroyed us, but we also asked for it. And I want Cyprus to be at a place where such a thing is impossdible to happen again.

[supporttheunderdog]

for those open minded enough to at least read about alternative theories here is another item on USA policy towards Cyprus

Dismantling the Cyprus Conspiracy: The US role in the Cypriot Crises of 1963, 1967, and1974
by Caroline Wenzke and Dan Lindley
http://www3.nd.edu/~dlindley/handouts/US%20role%20in%20Cyprus%20Crises.pdf

The article clearly aims at debunking some of the conspiracy theories about USA involvement in events in Cyprus in particular the work of 0'Malley and Craig .The thrust seems to be that while at various times the USA looked at partition and double Enosis there was in fact little consistent US policy, which also at other times favoured the preservation of the republic.it specifically seeks to absolve Kissinger from involvement in the coup and invasion, based upon contemporaneous papers that only came into the public domain after O'Malley and Craig published their work. It principally blames the Greek Junta for organising the coup.

the key section are p43 onwards.

I pass it on as is with no endorsement as to factual accuracy or the correctness of the theories and conclusion reached, but on the basis that one cannot disregard nor simply dismiss alternative pov..

[Paphitis]

for those open minded enough to at least read about alternative theories here is another item on USA policy towards Cyprus

Dismantling the Cyprus Conspiracy: The US role in the Cypriot Crises of 1963, 1967, and1974
by Caroline Wenzke and Dan Lindley
http://www3.nd.edu/~dlindley/handouts/US%20role%20in%20Cyprus%20Crises.pdf

The article clearly aims at debunking some of the conspiracy theories about USA involvement in events in Cyprus in particular the work of 0'Malley and Craig .The thrust seems to be that while at various times the USA looked at partition and double Enosis there was in fact little consistent US policy, which also at other times favoured the preservation of the republic.it specifically seeks to absolve Kissinger from involvement in the coup and invasion, based upon contemporaneous papers that only came into the public domain after O'Malley and Craig published their work. It principally blames the Greek Junta for organising the coup.

the key section are p43 onwards.

I pass it on as is with no endorsement as to factual accuracy or the correctness of the theories and conclusion reached, but on the basis that one cannot disregard nor simply dismiss alternative pov..

Thanks for the resource STUD. I will read this later.

I have always believed that the Conspiracy Theories have been greatly overstated. Either we like Conspiracy Theories or we are trying to cover up the destruction Greece caused.

You see, the Greek Patriots feel better when they can say it is all Kissinger and CIA.

Don't get me wrong. I love Greece very much. Too much! But I am not going to sit here wasting everyone's time defending Greece's role. Nor will I back down from criticising any negative role the US and Kissinger did to cause problems for the RoC.

One thing that is very clear to me, is that US Policy towards the RoC changed many times. At times, they were a big supporter of its existance.

But to be frank, the Turkish Invasion would never go ahead if the US did not approve of it. They could have stopped it, but they used Watergate as an excuse to say they could not do a thing about it. They are guilty to some extent, but sadly, Greece is far more guilty, and some of our politicians that have the responsibility for the security of Cypriot Citizens did stupid things also contributing to 180,000 Cypriots losing their land and homes.

[supporttheunderdog]

I think there were some extra posts here which have gone. If I recall gIG asked about my views on Craig and o'Malley. I read a borrowed copy about 12 years back. I though it read like a piece of extended journalism. I thought however the arguments plausible.

I am rereading it, having bought a kindle version from Amazon. If I can I will see if can cut and paste suitable quotes